0:01-27:04: Greetings from Graeme “Self-Embargoed” McMillan and Jeff “Self-Impetigoed” Lester, who move relatively quickly into this news discussion dense episode, starting with the passing of Gary Friedrich and the mighty Marie Severin, two workers in comics with very different careers who nonetheless managed to pass away within a day of one another. We start discussing the career of Gary Friedrich and his life and times, including his creation of Ghost Rider, his lawsuit with Marvel re same, his last comics credit, his long interview in Comic Artist, an on-point digression about the 90s Kirbyverse comics and Ultra comics, and much more.
27:04-37:21: And then we talk about Marie Severin, how absolutely amazing her work is, and how essential she was to Marvel in the Sixties and Seventies. We coo in awe over the suppleness of her line, her amazing house ad work for Marvel, her flawless pastiche work for Not Brand Echh, her sense of design, and discuss her ties to both Marvel and E.C, and how that perhaps one to inherit the mantle of the latter.
37:21-41:05: And from there, we move from discussing dead comics creators to the crib death of a nascent fandom with an article over at Graphic Policy about David Wray, better known to Twitter followers of this summer’s San Diego Comic-Con as Tom King’s bodyguard.
41:05-1:20:15: So perhaps it’s unsurprising we move on from there to talk about Comicsgate, the topic (unfortunately) on social media’s mind. Graeme wants to write about it, but is that just stoking the fires? Or does the industry need a definitive article that can prevent dozens of bad faith arguments? Also discussed: the lack of official statements from major comics publishers; other statements from Marvel; David Uzumeri’s article at Medium about the road to Comicsgate; and more.
1:20:15-1:30:25: Graeme offers Jeff a chance to get off the comics news train, but offers the recent story about the Small Press Expo and the CBLDF forming a new fund to help the creators and comics industry workers currently being sued by small press publisher Cody Pickrodt for defamation.
1:30:25-1:40:54: And then…there were comics! Graeme sat down with Marvel Unlimited and caught up with Charles Soule’s run with Ron Garney on Daredevil (“caught up” having that asterisk of Marvel Unlimited’s six month delay, of course). Graeme also covers Letter 44, Poe Dameron, and Soule’s work on Lando.
1:40:54-2:00:05: By contrast, Jeff has made his way up to the mid-sixties of Master of Kung-Fu, and tries to sell Graeme on the book. Moench! Gulacy! Marlon Brando! Fleetwood Mac! It’s Seventies Marvel Comics at its Seventiest! There’s also some talk about Marvel’s westerns, and the BOGO sale going on over at Comixology through September 6.
2:00:05-2:10:43: Sure, but what about more current comics? Well, we talk about wave 2 of the DC/Looney Tunes crossover books, with us recapping (to the point of spoiling, it should be said) Catwoman/Tweety & Sylvester; Joker/Daffy Duck; Harley Quinn/Goassmer; with a special focus on Lex Luthor/Porky Pig by Mark Russell, Brad Walker, Andrew Hennessy, and Andrew Dalhouse.2:10:43-2:21:20: Jeff caught up with the latest issues of X-Men: Grand Design by Ed Piskor. Are these recaps of the first several hundred issues of Uncanny X-Men a good introduction for someone wanting to get into the comics? Jeff initially thinks so, but Graeme makes a pretty good case against. Also discussed: TOM SCIOLI!
2:21:20-end: Closing comments!! Look for us on Stitcher! Itunes! Instagram! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr, and on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
NEXT WEEK: Skip week due to travel! But join us in two weeks for Baxter Building! Read issues #382-388 of Fantastic Four by Tom DeFalco and Paul Ryan and join us!
For your cutting & pasting type needs:
http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts2/WaitWhat255.mp3
Graeme mentioned being surprised how many classic images were actually drawn by Marie Severin. I had the same experience reading her Dr. Strange a few years back and learning she drew the awesome panel that the MindlessOnes repurposed for their website banner. Always thought that was Ditko.
Severin’s Living Tribunal is one of my all-time favorite villain designs. I linked his debut image. Hopefully it goes through.
https://i0.wp.com/berkeleyplaceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/IMG_2200.jpg
Marie Severin was great. Considering some of the people who got in the Marvel Visionaries series of books, it’s seems likely sexism played a great part in how Marvel employed and promoted her skills. I’m also very fond of her Kull work. When her brother John turned in some fine work on The Witchfinder series at Dark Horse just before his death, I entertained the idea they might reunite for another Kull story, given that DK had the Howard licence then.
I would strongly advise anyone to stay very far away from Comicsgate. There is no benefit to anyone to get involved.
First, the general public doesn’t know or care in the least about Comicsgate. To them, it sounds like a bunch of young white privileged nerdy man-babies trolling people on social media who are different than them. How is that any different than what is going on in the real world? The comics industry is obviously sensitive to this Comicsgate issue, but trust me, that’s where the interest begins and ends.
Second, neither side is interested in the truth. Even if his motivations are pure, Graeme will probably only ultimately end up pissing off both sides, and this will not be good for his career. The alt-right Comicsgaters are not going to like his conclusions, which he admits are already pre-formed (never state that in public). He’s not going to change the minds of any Comicgaters as they will simply see him as one of the “Portland Mafia” as they call you guys. Conversely, simply by giving Richard Meyer and Ethan VanSciver a forum to spew their nonsense, the other side (let’s call them the far left) will not be happy with him and they may go so far as to blacklist him. The far left is obsessed with identity politics and they resort to McCarthyite tactics when one of their own strays from the party line. They turn on their own harder and quicker than the other side does and there is no coming back from that. I’m one of the most liberal people I know, and I’m all about social justice, and have been a card carrying member of the ACLU for longer than these millennials have been alive and the far left frightens even me. Their goal is admirable, but sorry, the end doesn’t justify the means.
I’ve sampled enough of Meyer’s and VanSciver’s You Tube videos and I’ve concluded that they’re misogynists, world-class assholes, and bullies who admire the big bully-in-chief, but they definitely are not Nazis. I’m sure they would deny being racists, but most racists don’t think they’re racists. What they are, is like the clown they helped get elected: grifters. They are grifters who benefit every time someone on the left calls them out. How do you think Meyer raised a quarter of a million on indiegogo? He got help from Darryl Ayo, Mark Waid and Tim Doyle. (By the way, if you have ever heard what any of those folks have had to say, they are also assholes and bullies, but to their benefit, they do not appear to be misogynists. People on the far left overlook their offenses because it benefits them. Yeah, they’re all hypocrites as well).
I hate to say it, but the comic book industry is full of idiots and buffoons and that’s why the industry is circling the drain. I think the comic book companies are correct in not getting involved. What are they going to say exactly? Do they want to alienate even more customers than they already do? That’s why I advocate for ignoring the alt-right. Keep discussing them and writing articles about them and they will gain more attention and more followers. Ignore them and they fade into obscurity.
Ignoring wounds is how they fester and infect. The both sides horseshoe theory on display here is some bullshit.
If you think someone emailing another person a picture of their asshole is acceptable behavior, I can’t distinguish which side you’re on.
Hey guys! I listen to both comicsgate and counter views and I am on the side of comicsgate. If you would like to talk anytime I would love to chat. I disagree strongly with the way it was portrayed. It really started as just some folks complaining about the poor quality of comics due to Marvel making an editorial decision to add go for cheaper talent that wants to push political ideology at the expense of good comics. And now when you tap into the group you have an audience that wants to buy comics, but doesnt see a place for them anymore. Also, so much of the harassment we call on Comicsgate is called protesting by the other side. Most of the challenges came due to quality and controversial statements by each side. So i think it is OKAY to protest for each side. And bad language is OKAY. But maybe I believe in old ideas.
If I step back, it is the flip came so, so hard and quick with who is in charge and getting work. Suddenly a ton of old talent was too expensive or not woke enough to get work. It stunk. So this anti-authoritarian movement came out and was 100% internet based. I also think Gen X and Millenials are super, super different. While GenXers are eternal victims, Millenials cant give a fuck. A lot of us dont want to get involved and are more libertarian (but with big caveats like government services foe All, not select classes). This is causing issues not just in comics, but music too (mumble rap is driving old hip hop heads crazy). But this is a free wheeling comment so happy to keep talking. Love you all and keep up the great work.
I don’t think you are under any obligation to interview these people because as public figures and vloggers they have told the world their beliefs in a lot of very easy to find places and very on the record places.
– How different would the article that Graeme McMillan envisages be from Asher Elbein’s Daily Beast piece from April?
That seems to me to be a pretty good example of journalism on this topic that mixes original reporting with analysis and conforms to standard journalistic practice — in particular, on the point that concerns Mr. McMillan, whether he should seek comment from CG figures. (I’m not a journalist myself, so not really qualified to comment, certainly not as qualified as Graeme McMillan himself is.)
– Uzumeri’s argument seems to me to do something that we all have a tendency to do, make two things that are both bad directly connected as cause and effect. I think it’s a good case for applying the test of rephrasing the argument as a counterfactual. It’s equivalent to “If several years ago, online comics writers had banded together to insist that people who wrote things critical of comics companies did not lose access, then Comicsgate would not ever have happened.” That on its face is a claim that would call for stronger arguments for one causing the other than Uzumeri seems to me to make. Which is not to say that the first was not a bad thing, although not as bad as the second.
RE: comixology Sales: There is also a Dark Horse “double sale” going on. The is a DH50 code for half off, and it also works on their other sales, Back to School and video games. I bought 7 volumes of Usagi Yojimbo Saga for 2 bucks each. Those are 600 page books for 2 bucks each. Individual issues of books for 50 cents. Lots of crazy good deals on there.
Patrick,
Thank you for pointing out the DH sale! I wanted to read Usagi Yojimbo Saga 7 but couldn’t find it for cheap. Paying $2 for a UJ phone book made my day!