0:00-05:25: Greetings! Graeme and I are still recovering from our version of Civil War—the DC Rebirth #1 roundtable from just a few days back. Fortunately, Graeme knows just what it takes to heal the wounds of battle: a story about his friendly nieghborhood Chatty Cat! (Chatty Cat No. 2, no less!)
05:25-12:51: From Chatty Cat No. 2, to comics we’ve read this week. Jeff has not read much—although he quite liked Revenger and the Fog #2—and Graeme has read a lot, but some of it is still under embargo (for those of you that are wondering, no, Graeme did not go on to tell Jeff about the books off-air). So instead we kinda bitch a bit about the difficulty of keeping track of what you’ve read on Marvel Unlimited and Comixology. Discussed: what percentage of Graeme’s Comixology In Progress list is for work; Jack Katz’s First Kingdom; and spending hours in school drawing barbarian arms.
12:51-30:03: Speaking of squandering precious time, Jeff has been playing Marvel Future’s Fight on his iPad, but before he can get to the point of something he finds quite sad, we have to get through a brief history of RPGs, Diablo, and free to play games. Discussed: who the hell is Singularity; all of the above, plus the absence of The Fantastic Four and The X-Men; and Graeme having read Contest of Champions and loving it but being art-blocked on New Avengers; all those teams featuring Johnny Storm; and a moment of lovely humanity, courtesy of Gene Yang.
Cap sketch by Cameron Stewart, modified slightly on Twitter.
30:03-48:00: We have listener questions! And we do want to answer them, we assure you, but Jeff also kinda wants to talk about Hydra Cap, the big reveal that somehow managed to outshine—or at least consume as much internet chatter—DC’s big reveal in DC Rebirth #1. Discussed: Old school Hydra; The MCU’s Hydra and people’s conception of the Marvel characters; Ed Brubaker’s Captain America run; what will happen to Alan Scott in post-Rebirth; and more.
48:00-49:40: “Graeme, are we ever going to get to listener’s questions?” asks Jeff. Fortunately, we are! Thomas Williams asks: “I’ve always wanted to know what Graeme thought of the last page ending of Archer and Armstrong. I thought it’s one of the best last pages of a series.”
49:40-59:55:Ahmed Bhuiyan says: “You guys have come a long way, I remember back in the day when the first half hour of each episode seemed to be you guys comparing juice fasts/cleanses. I kind of miss those to be honest. Anyways, on to questions! Answer as many or as few as you like of course.
1. Is the concept of a shared universe hurting or helping comics these days?
2. What work of Jack Kirby wouldn’t you recommend? (Thanks to you all and the Baxter Building segments I have been trolling eBay for the Fourth World Omnibii…only volume 2 left!)
3. Why are you two so awesome? Seriously, funny, insightful, and pretty relatable, despite how pretty hardcore do you analyze the story/creator, love it!
Keep up the great work guys, stay well, and tell Graeme to relax more and send Jeff some waffles, we haven’t had a Waffle Window update in ages it feels!”
59:55-1:13:31:Adam Knave throws us this hypothetical: “You need to put people on the dc rebirth books. You can’t change the titles themselves, only creative teams. What are a few of your choices? (Besides giving me Super Sons, obviously…)”
1:13:31-1:23:59: Gary Katselas (LeonK) asks : “Gentlemen, it seems I’m one of the few people who enjoyed ‘Man of Steel’ and ‘Batman Vs Superman’ more than Marvel’s many film offerings, including the recently released ‘Civil War’ which has garnered widespread acclaim among mainstream critical circles. This irks me slightly because I am most assuredly a Marvel fanboy and I find their conservative production approach too constrictive to produce interesting results. I much prefer the operatic pretensions of ‘Batman vs Superman’ and the troubling uncertainty that was injected into the Superman mythos in ‘Man of Steel’ (as well as numerous moments of sheer filmmaking insanity). Which brings me to my question: having read very little in the way of DC comics, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what comic series or storylines (Superman, Batman or otherwise) most closely match these films in tone and thematic concern?”
1:23:59-1:29:21: Devin King asks: “My question: Why is Watchmen a bad movie? I know its reputation but can’t find any critical responses to it. I know the common reaction was that it tries too hard to emulate the book but…isn’t that supposed to be a good thing?”
1:29:21-1:34:35: Check this out from Heath Edwards: “Hey fellas, super huge congratulations on getting the 200th episode! If I may suggest a topic for discussion:
mutants = minority groups
Inhumans = generation hashtag
How do the different methods of the mutants /inhumans getting their powers inform today’s readers of their own methods of empowerment?
Mutants gain their powers genetically (internal), whereas the inhumans gain their powers from the terrigen mists (external).
The mutants have no choice in their empowerment: “I was born this way” Though, I can’t remember if there hasn’t been a story about subconscious choice being a part of the empowerment of the inhumans: “I am shy, I shall be a window” type thing
How, if at all, do these ideas play into contemporary empowerment?”
1:34:35-1:42:09: Hey it’s Gar Berner! And he asks: “I just wanted to wish you two continued success on the podcast and your other endeavors and that I’m looking forward to the next 200!
My probably late question is:
Which Legionnnaire (from the Legion of Super Heroes, not the French army) do you most identify with?
The lack of Legion support by DC Comics is sad. Granted, it’s a concept a bit past it’s prime as you both mentioned. There is some angle or 2016 twist that needs to be unlocked for the LSH to be the success that it should.”
1:42:09-2:01:01: Here comes Levi Tompkins, you guys! Levi has four big questions for us:
“Q1 You guys have talked a lot about some of the weirdness that guys like Englehart, Claremont, and even Shooter have brought to comics do to their own particular sexual ideals and hangups. Do you think that modern big 2 comics has divorced itself from that sort of thing, and if so do you think its better off for it?
(As someone who has been rather warped by things read in Claremont comics and other places as a kid its one of those things I think about a lot)
Q2 What would Modern Marvel events be like under people like Englehart or Kirby. What would a Kirby Event look like?
Q3 With the Gotham Academy Lumberjanes crossover coming, any other non big two books you think it would be interesting to have crossover with the Marvel or DC?
Q4 Who are your favorite new Big 2 characters. I find myself really adoring some of the newer X-characters, or Gotham Academy kids, any people from the last 10 years you adore and think could last?”
2:01:01-2:01:55: Maybe not a question per se, but Bruce Baugh has a beautiful white-hot burn:
“What we need is a little Wait What app that would grab from a list of Jeff’s favorite favorite nouns, with audio of him saying them, and drop into sentences of the podcast as needed. So when Jeff says “It’s not just Kirby, though, so much as, well, his approach to, but not fully until the DC, yeah no, it also appears, or least I think it’s suggested in some of the coloring for, hmm, yes, him and also some of the others who were in…”, We’d get “”It’s not just Kirby, though, so much as, well, his approach to [recontextualization], but not fully until the DC [collection], yeah no, it also appears, or least I think it’s suggested in some of the coloring for [Don Heck], hmm, yes, him and also some of the others who were in [editorial]…”
2:01:55-2:06:29: And here’s the matching “question” from long-time chum of the podcast Robert Grzech:
“In light of the critical failure of BvS and Graeme’s on-air lukewarm reception and off-air distaste for the latest Captain America movie, I’m truly curious as to what your opinions are as to what exactly makes for a good comic book movie?
What are your expectations? Graeme doesn’t like Marvel in general so he’s not exactly the audience for Marvel movies. This makes me wonder why Graeme even went to Captain America, especially if he knew what he was going to get and went into it with what sounds like a predisposition to hating the movie. And if Graeme didn’t like Captain America, what exactly would he have done differently? What would have made the movie work for him? I thought the movie was far better than the comic book version of Civil War. I realize this is all subjective, but Graeme’s shock (shock, I say!) that any reasonable person would like Captain America was frankly insulting. All he had to say was he didn’t like it because he’s Graeme.
I paid $5.95 to watch Captain America at a Saturday matinee. $5.95 for a 2 hour movie! I was highly entertained. I’ve bought floppies for almost that much, which I’ve read in 10 minutes before throwing them into the garbage can. And no, it’s not 2 hours out of my life. I don’t want those 2 hours back or I wouldn’t have gone in the first place. I look at these movies as comic books brought to life, and Marvel does a decent job of staying true to the characters. If the characterizations are to be criticized because they seem stilted or cartoonish or underdeveloped, that’s because these are comic book characters!
If they had made these movies back when we were kids, we would have gone crazy. Yeah, I know, the technology would have sucked and the early Captain America movie was an obvious example of that. These movies are comic books brought to life. That’s how I look at them. Some are harder to watch than others (Fantastic Four and Green Lantern, I’m looking at you), but generally they have met and at times, exceeded my expectations. I’m not looking for The Godfather or Annie Hall here. Just entertainment for a few dollars.
Why so serious?
Relax and enjoy them or stay home.”
2:06:29-2:22:22: Chad Nevett, here is your question! (Also, I apologize for being an absolute idiot!): “I just finished your 200th episode and have a question for episode 201: I don’t remember either of you ever saying much about John Constantine or Hellblazer (maybe you did and I forgot or didn’t hear it, because I rarely listen — not because I don’t enjoy the podcast, purely because wife, kid, job, sleep, and everything else gets in the way), but what are your thoughts on the character/comics?”
2:22:22-end: Closing Comments! You can tell Jeff is tired when you hear him go straight to the closing without the comments! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr, and our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to our125 supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK: is a skip week! Let your ears rest and recover, and then join us for Wait, What? Ep. 202!
A few weeks back, Jeff, Graeme and I spent like a billion words revisiting the Preacher comics. One of the primary motivators for that lookback was the then-imminent debut of the Preacher TV series; I was skeptical…
http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/BaxterBuildingEp17.mp3 Previously on Baxter Building: The old order changeth! Sue Richards has left the team — and her husband! (Feminism is to blame, and certainly not Reed Richards’ offensively paternal attitude, oh no.) She’s been…
Someone on Twitter–I can’t remember who, but it was some comic creator that got RT’ed into my life–made the point that more comic reviewers needed to review second issues, and fourth issues, and other non-“jumping…
0:00-3:38: Greetings! And welcome to episode 200, where our long-term special guest star, Technical Difficulties, almost dropped by for an opening visit. Those of you who’ve heard our early episodes recently might enjoy listening to Graeme and Jef try to reminisce about their early days when they can barely remember them.
3:38-33:29: And then it’s on to a discussion about Captain America: Civil War the movie that somehow both Graeme and Jeff saw during its first week of release. Jeff liked it, Graeme didn’t, and so we’re off to the races! FULL SPOILERS AHOY, so please do be careful if you haven’t seen it yet. (Because otherwise you might end up like Graeme, as this conversation will make clear.) Discussed: Batman vs. Stupidman; reasons why you might not thoroughly spoil a movie for yourself before you see it; Robert Downey Jr.’s performance in CA: Civil War; Tom Holland as Peter Parker/Spider-Man; Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa/Black Panther; the overstuffed nature of Marvel films; Emily VanCamp as Sharon Carter; J.Law vs. J.Gar vs. J.Lo vs. J.League; Joss Whedon, J.J. Abrams, and how the works at the front of the nerd zeitgeist age over time; good movies vs. good Marvel movies; the action sequences in CA: Civil War; John Wick and the legacy of Hong Kong movies; different special effect houses; Graeme shit-talking CA: Civil War in emails or not; and then…SPECIAL GUEST APPEARANCE BY ERNIE AND GUS-GUS! YAYYYYYY! (It’s like they knew it was our 200th episode!) (And yet Graeme swears to me he didn’t tell them.)
33:29-39:41: “Yes, yes,” you’re saying. “I suppose I have enjoyed all two hundred or so episodes of Wait, What? But I do wish they had more cheesy tie-in discussions to big movie events that one of them doesn’t even like…” Well, face front, true believer, because we’ve organized the Wait, What? Civil War 200th Episode Event where each of us picked a team of five comic book characters to fight for us! Who will win? #TeamGraeme, who assembled two separate teams, or #TeamJeff, which assembled a team with *six* comic book characters? (Maybe a more important question is, why can’t these guys follow their own rules?) Discussed: Wildfire from the Legion of Superheroes; erotic Sears bedsheets; Dave Cockrum and the secret word of the podcast, which when uttered leads to….
39:41-53:32: As you probably know, Darwyn Cooke passed away the day we recorded this podcast, not long after it was announced he’d been fighting cancer. Although Jeff thought we’d talk about Cooke and his legacy at the end of the episode, and Graeme was surprised we didn’t discuss it at the beginning, here we are talking about it now.
53:32-55:03: And so with that we’re back to our discussion of the Wait, What? Civil War Teams, this time picking up with #TeamJeff and the second team for #TeamGraeme. And then it’s time for: CALLS FROM LISTENERS. In order to make it easier on my tippy-tappy little fingers, and also in order to provide you with a modicum of suspense, I will not transcribe the whole call but rather than provide you with a meaningful excerpt as provided by Google Voice’s auto-transcription feature, which as you can imagine is absolutely 100% accurate, for example:
55:03-1:02:57: Here’s Zack: “Gradulations on 202 question any crap man. You know so if there’s anything more we can do to make them to is interesting and failing that and if there’s anything they can do to make expensive and less paranoid. Thanks gradulations.” Discussed: X-Men fans, what makes the Inhumans interesting, and more.
1:02:57-1:05:13: Here’s Aaron (lickthestar) from Detroit: “I remember the first time I came across your podcast kind of by chance after you getting back into comments after a long hiatus and I listen to you guys for an hour and a half rip apart on my favorite marvel comics and tell me what a horrible writer, pinnacle been disses […]” Discussed: we are terrible human beings, Ernie and Gus-Gus have opinions; and more.
1:05:13-1:30:19: Here’s Paul McCall (parts 1 and 2): “Hello, my name is Paul mcAll and I’m a comic book attic and superhero Chunky […] I have not yet hurt. I know you both drunk or some kind of clear view website, but I want details.” Discussed: DC’s 80 page and 100 page giants; when one becomes a Whatnaut; how the two of us met; writing the Onomatopoeia newsletter for Comix Experience; how we ended up doing the podcast; influences on the podcast (for Jeff, anyway);
1:30:19-1:33:11: Here’s Steve from Los Angeles: “you guys are just f****** fantastic, and I will also say that the first time I listen to the show. I absolutely hated it, and I think I first turned in on some episode where there was a lengthy discussion of the waffle window and various. You know walkal related topics, and I was like what the f*** is this […]” Discussed: our secret ingredient.
1:33:11-1:34:32: Welcome, Peter from Atlanta: “‘I’ve been a listener for about a year now, and I really enjoyed how much you guys just kind of break-ins it just feels like me and my friend alright conversations. I’ve had with friends and bars where it goes you start one place, and you end up of millions of miles away from where you are and so it’s on a few my hair thing about the show.[…]” Discussed: THE TANGENTS
1:34:32-1:41:37: And here’s Special Guest-Star Voodoo Ben!: “I‘ve loved every minute of it to get to a classic wait what conundrum? I was wondering if you guys would consider. What if Jack Kirby’s post Marvel work on that community before as well this address.” Discussed: What waffles Jack Kirby’s DC work would be if Jack Kirby’s DC work (and some of his Pacific Comics work) were waffles.
1:41:37-1:43:09: Leef Smith of Mission Comics and Art: “I went back in I’ve actually listening to some of the first episodes this week, and it’s amazing how consistent you guys are alright.” (Leef has the diction that Google Voice apparently loves because this auto-transcribed excerpt is very, very close to what he actually said. IMPRESSIVE!) Discussed (all too briefly): Mission Comics and Art is a fantastic comic store in San Francisco and you should go for a visit if you haven’t already.
1:43:09-1:44:42: Levi Tompkins is here to say, among other things: “I love you guys is rambling but they just thought well. I think they’re informative. I think they’re making me the email love comics, but also sometimes heat them[…]” Discussed: victory via SCOIP; Jeff being unfair to Graeme, and the snarkiest intro Jeff has ever made.
1:44:42-1:47:57: Matt Terl! (Who really is one of our favorite people, and we had to badger him into calling): “I figured I would do go up one of the old emails. I had sent you guys with a question that I want to point out you never ever answered posted to you know see if maybe you would take the time to answer it the question is this is from june 2012.” Discussed: no, really, Matt, we love you; the JMS law; and more.
1:47:57-1:49:51: David Morris from Bristol calling: “David Morris calling from Bristol thanking you for 200 Apple Foods looking forward to more[…]” Discussed: David’s brilliant Wait, What parable.
1:49:51-1:51:01: And here’s Martin Gray [inaccurate transcript unavailable] who took time out for the excellent work he does over at Too Busy For A Girl to leave us a message. Thank you Martin!
1:51:01-1:59:41: And, similarly, here’s another delightful-but-impossible-to-distort-via-Google-Voice’s-autotranscription call, this time from Daniel McKay asking: if we could have a fantasy dinner party with anyone from comics, who would you invite and why? Discussed: Ryan North, Gil Kane, Alan Moore, Olive Byrne, and Jill Lepore’s The Secret History of Wonder Woman, why there’s a transcription of an orgy, Clark Kent, Alec McGarrity, Kid Eternity, Wallace Wells, Diabolik, the best version of Clue, and more.
1:59:41-2:08:15: We are also lucky enough to get a message from Al Kennedy and Paul O’Brien of the brilliant House to Astonish! And they ask: “how do you see the comics landscape and your work in comics podcasting having changed since you started?” Discussed: Uh, exactly that, although Graeme comes up with much more well thought out points about the topic than Jeff. (Sooooo much more thought out!) But also: Bill Mantlo! Patreon! and more!
2:08:15-2:12:23: And finally from Jay Edidin of Jay and Miles X-plain The X-Men: “As you look back over the first two hundred episodes, what do you want to revisit, and what are you looking forward to leaving in the dust?” Discussed: Nashville, Jane The Virgin, and more.
2:12:23-2:16:27: “Oh, but what about those listener questions?” you ask (which is itself a listener question, if you think about it). Jeff was such a space cadet he didn’t think we got any but Graeme, fortunately, knows better. However, there’s no way we’re going to be able to answer them this go-round so, episode 301, which will be the episode after next week’s Baxter Building episode, will tackle all those questions…and any more you want to send to !
2:16:27-end: Closing Comments! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr (where Graeme posted a really fantastic little Spider-Man story by Hannah Blumenreich. If you haven’t seen it already, you should check it out)!
Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 125 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK: It’s Baxter Building, Ep. 18! Read Fantastic Four issues #134-146 with us!
Judge Dredd is dead. I mean, he’s not, obviously; even beyond the “he’s a fictional character, so what is death, really?” nature of the concept, there’s also the reality that 2000AD isn’t going to kill…
Oh, hello, everyone. Nice to see you all again. Sorry for having been so … intermittent, I guess, over the last while. The usual internet-content-provider excuses apply–“life got in the way,” “busy time at the…
It struck me, recently, that my oft-repeated (to myself, at least) belief that I am not really that into the whole autobio comics scene was utterly flawed. Despite proudly proclaiming this for a number of…
0:00-10:45: Greetings! And a slow burn of a greeting it is, too, what with Graeme actively (actively!) asking questions about Jeff’s storage space moving plans. And then a discussion of media mail?! Are you kidding me?? Just how lucky are you, you guys? It’s almost impossible to gauge.
10:45-22:04: Comics! We realize right around here that we can talk about comics: y’know, just dive right and start talking about comics we’ve been reading on our over the last three-plus weeks that. So of course we spend some time talking about public reception to the upcoming Captain America: Civil War movie. Also discussed: anger and the Internet, surgery, scheduling, commercials and Marvel Comics, and more.
22:04-37:38: Speaking of which, we discuss the first issue of Black Panther by Ta-Nehisi Coates, Brian Steelfreeze, and Laura Martin: Discussed: price points; Hickman’s Avengers; Don McGregor’s Panther’s Rage; the Marvel BOGO sale at Comixology and the Marvel Half-Price Off Sale at Amazon; Black Panther as Batman; Jack Kirby, Grant Morrison, and Geoff Johns.
37:38-52:58: in fact, Graeme has read *a lot* of Geoff Johns material recently so he has some opinions on this very topic. Discussed: JSA, Hawkman, Brightest Day, Flash: Rebirth, and Green Lantern: Rebirth; Captain Britain; Geoff Johns’ Flash and TV’s Flash; and more.
52:58-1:19:17: “Are you into Flash?” Graeme asks. “Like, as a character?” This is a potentially great topic for conversation—who are our favorite heroes, and why?—but it catches Jeff surprisingly off-guard. Discussed: DC heroes and Marvel heroes; every Wildcat story ever; the template behind Morrison’s JLA and how it’s being used by Waid right now in All-New, All-Different Avengers; Nick Spencer and Daniel Acuna’s Captain America; Jeff’s Captain America theory; Avengers Standoff: Welcome to Pleasant Hill; DC’s Legends; where the name “The Phantom Stranger” came from; and more.
1:19:17-1:34:37: A thing Jeff re-read very recently and greatly enjoyed but not in the ways he expected: Elektra Assassin by Frank Miller and Bill Sienkiewicz. Also discussed: David Mazzuchelli and Daredevil: Born Again and Batman: Year One; Dave McKean; Barron Storey; and more.
1:34:37-1:40:06: Other things Jeff re-read and enjoyed: two collections of Brubaker’s and Phillips’ (and Staples’ and Breitweiser’s) ’ Criminal: Bad Night and Last of the Innocent, while also checking out the recent 10th Anniversary Special Edition Magazine. Discussed: Archie, Encyclopedia Brown; Britt Black; Wil Wheaton; Matt Fraction; and more.
1:40:06-1:52:39: Also on the “Jeff read and enjoyed this” list: 4 Kids Walk Into a Bank by Tyler Boss and Matthew Rosenberg; Unbeatable Squirrel Girl V2 #7 by Ryan North, Erica Henderson and Ricco Renzi; The Vision #6 by Tom King, Gabriel Hernandez Walta and Jordie Bellaire (with a possible spoiler for Civil War II); the problem with Ms. Marvel; and more.
1:52:39-2:09:30: Jeff also read via Marvel Unlimited the first issue of Amazing Spider-Man (2015) by Dan Slott and Giuseppe Camuncoli and he had, let us just say, “all the feels” about it. Discussed: Spidey’s love interests; how to have your spider-cake and eat it too; grown-ups and Richie Rich; #NotMyBlackPanther; and more.
2:09:30-2:14:46: Because we’ve run long, Graeme can only briefly extol the virtues of The Pantherby Brecht Evens (now out in English) and Hot Dog Taste Test by Lisa Hanawalt, both from Drawn & Quarterly); and Jeff manages to work in how much he enjoyed the first issue ofSun Bakery by Corey “Rey” Lewis.
2:14:46-end: Closing Comments! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr (where Graeme posted a really fantastic little Spider-Man story by Hannah Blumenreich. If you haven’t seen it already, you should check it out)! And our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 120 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK: For some of the reasons discussed above, but also because of the schedule (we think?), there’s a skip week! Catch us in two for more audio gaga!