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Wait, What?, Ep. 331: Moving Pictures
November 21, 2021
0:01-2:53: Greetings! Either Graeme has quite the frog in his throat, Yoda has decided to guest-host, or Chloe Maveal has once again joined us for some comic book blabbity blab! (Don’t worry I won’t spoil it for you here—no wait, I pretty much have to.). She’s only here with us for the first hour (don’t worry it ends up being closer to 90 minutes).
2:53-16:44: We had a whole bunch of stuff we’ve been planning on talking about for a while and a lot of it falls under the pop culture side of things than comic stuff (at least to start). For example, I’ve been wanting the three of us to talk about Malignant for *months* now…and now it’s finally here! Dear Cahiers du Cinema: I always thought your letters were made up, but then something happened to me I just had to write to you about… But first, quick talk about For All Mankind, and Annette and then SPOILERS as we talk bout the giddy, messy joys of Malignant.
16:44-30:19: Is there really a link between Malignant and Dune (apart from Jeff’s best friend, HBO Max?). He thinks so, but Graeme and Chloe think there are distinctions to be made considering Dune is, y’know, good. But we talk about Villeneuve’s adaptation, Lynch’s adaptation, the original book, being weird and horny, Graeme having the action figure as a kid, David Lynch’s amazing contest, and more.
30:19-52:21: Another film Jeff has been *dying* to talk about with Graeme and Chloe? Zack Snyder’s Sucker Punch, which Jeff only saw for the first time a few weeks ago! Chloe and Jeff both have some divergent opinions (along with an amazing potential prediction from Chloe about Jeff’s future) and present the case for and against for Snyder’s oddball “epic”. Also discussed: Bjork, Jack Hill, Welcome to Marwencol, I Kill Giants, Showgirls, Burlesque, and more.
52:21-1:31:52: SPOILERS as we talk about season two of Ted Lasso, now that Jeff’s finally finished watching it. Why does Jeff refer to it as “Tad Lesso” and why won’t Graeme and Chloe acknowledge how god-damn brilliant that pun is? Discussed: Twin Peaks Season 2, which Ted Lasso character we all are; Twin Peaks: The Return; Dollhouse; Tank Girl and the career of Malcolm McDowell; Succession; Hackers; SLC Punk; and more.
1:31:52-1:50:37: Chloe splits, leaving Jeff and Graeme with a certain amount of confusion. What….do we talk about now? As it turns out Graeme has an answer and that answer is: Brian Michael Bendis’s run on Superman. Spoilers, I guess, if you haven’t read the end of Bendis’s run, especially with regards to the Invisible Mafia storyline and the fate of Jor-El.
1:50:37-1:59:19: On the opposite end, comfort-wise, of the “I liked it, it was good,” Jeff is incredibly impressed (and conflicted) about Tom King and Jorge Fornés’s Rorschach, which he is reading on DC Universe Infinite. We talk a bit about how the story continues to intertwine Strange Adventures, how the series might’ve gotten way more positive word of mouth if it wasn’t such a poisoned chalice of an IP. (Also, Graeme’s caught up on the first five issues of Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow by King and Bilquis Evely, something I’ve wanted for Martin Gray for literally months now).
1:59:19-2:10:37: Quick rundown of some of the other stuff Jeff’s been reading, super-quick: the second issues of Clear and We Have Demons and the first two issues of The All-Nighter, all on Comixology Unlimited; the first two volumes of Outcast by Kirkman and Azaceta via Hoopla; the finale of The 6 Sidekicks of Trigger Keaton; volume 10 of Sweat and Soap; the latest issue of the Nice House on the Lake; the first issue of Catwoman: Lonely City; and vols. 2 and 3 of Creature Girls: A Hands-On Field Journal in Another World.
2:10:37-end: Closing Comments…although a smooth landing is marred by some literal hemming and hawing from Jeff about our schedule for December. Nonetheless: look for us on Stitcher!Itunes!Instagram! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Tumblr, and on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for her continuing support of this podcast.
Next week: Skip week! If you’re in the States, have a great Thanksgiving and join us in December!
You scared me there. After fast forwarding 90 minutes on the grounds I’d seen nothing discussed in the Chloe section, Jeff then suggested wrapping up. Thank goodness for Graeme’s reread.
Graeme is so right about the mess of Bendis’s plotting. I hated Rogol Zaar, and the sending of Jon into space, and the weird stuff about Lois living in a hotel… but his Action Comics Invisible Mafia story was generally great, and the relationship between Clark and Lois was wonderful. Heck, his Superman was altogether gorgeous, what a great guy! He also wrote a wonderful Supergirl.
Which brings us – finally! – to Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow, the Supergirl book for fans of… well, not Supergirl. If you’ve still not read even the first issue, Jeff, here’s a précis
#1 Supergirl is friendless and drunk.
#2 Supergirl is asleep on a space bus.
#3 Supergirl is smart and caring, I know this woman!
#4 Supergirl stands by as a guy is stoned to death.
#5 Supergirl is sick and asleep but her wee pal Ruthye saves the day.
Every issue – Ruthye reads from the thesaurus. God, she’s tedious.
So yes, issue three was good, I gave it a very positive review. Apart from that, it’s Ruthye Ruthye Ruthye, who Tom King claimed would be our new favourite character. Well, by issue five she’s bearable, but she’s not who I’m shelling out good money to enjoy. And yet the whole story is told from her perspective – Kara is cameoing in ‘her’ book. If ever a comic book was indicative of King’s ‘I have a story, which character don’t you care about, DC?’ approach, this is it. The good reviews I’ve seen come from Tom King fans and/or people who don’t give a stuff about Supergirl. Check out the responses to my reviews, or Anj’s over at Supergirl Comic Box Commentary – longtime Kara fans don’t see a Supergirl series.
This is King pushing his new character Ruthye – named after his niece, Ruthie – at the expense of Supergirl. I’m not against characters changing, but not overnight. One month Supergirl is helping out her cousin, his kid and his clone in Metropolis, and the love between them is spoken and evident, the next she’s getting pissed in a space bar alone, with no one to celebrate turning 21 with. Months have passed in the course of this series and there’s no indication anyone misses her.
Oh, and King seems to have killed off Krypto. He may be hanging on, I’m holding out for the Survival Zone.
Honestly though, DC seems not to give a stuff about Supergirl, if Editorial doesn’t actually actively hate her. In the last decade she’s joined the Red Lanterns, gone dark multiple times, been seen as a sad Future State spinster… it’s thoroughly depressing.
Please Jeff, have a read as soon as you’re able.
In other news, don’t worry if you can’t get all the shows in for December, so you miss a Drokk…
Y’all are so wrong on movies.
Annette: five stars, movie the of the year. I BAWLED at the last scene.
Malignant: STINKY! There’s some cool kills at the beginning and the end, but the whole middle section is just dull dull dull.
Also, I’d really love it if Chloe and Graeme used separate microphones while recording. When both are recording, it’s very hard to hear either of them, especially Chloe.
Oh, Ed. If only I had a heart as pure as yours, at least where Annette is concerned.
And I know what you mean about the separate mic recording though don’t quite know how to address (short of them both getting on separatte laptops and headsets which I might recommend, even though it cuts down on the amount of in-person tattling they can do on one another).
I never expected that Graeme would be a person ensuring ‘that music like (that) wouldn’t die.’ Jings, etc. In my teens i loved ‘Dune’, but was progressively more disappointed by each succeeding volume. Finally tapped out after ‘God Emperor of-‘. Do not recall the horniness of books two and three, but that’s likely on me. I’ve also been left wondering what it says about me that it was a trans friend who discouraged me from watching ‘Sucker Punch.’
You didn’t mention the times Malcolm McDowell appeared on the Teen Titans cartoon as the Mad Mod! Malcolm McDowell also appears in the recent series Scooby-Doo and Guess Who? which featured a different (weird) guest star in every episode. In addition to Batman, Wonder Woman, and The Flash they meet Steve Buscemi, Alton Brown, Jason Sudeikis (that guy again), and more. (I’ve only actually watched one episode, but it looks like there’s an episode where all the voice actors appear as themselves.)
“At the request of Malcolm McDowell, Mystery Inc. travels to his estate just outside Santa Barbara, California in order to help solve the mystery of the Chronobeast and why it is pursuing him. While filming a Hollywood movie about time travel decades prior, he became deeply interested in the theoretical physics behind actual time travel in real life, cracking the code after many years of research. He escorts them into his secret underground lab before showing off his time machine which is made in the form of a pedal powered carousel featuring antique style “Big Wheel” bicycles on the outer track. Velma barely has time to get a call from her future self before the Chronobeast is hot on their heels, leaving the time machine as their only route of escape.”
I’ve just read the 5th issue of the Supergirl series and am puzzled by the mechanic of the escape. I understand that things are better for a kryptonian after night falls on a world with a kryptonite sun, but just flying off into space wouldn’t be safe because it’s night. Maybe Supergirl thinks she can keep the shadow of the planet between her and the sun until she’s far enough away for the radiation not to weaken her catastrophically in the vacuum of space, but the consequences are so significant, especially when someone else’s life is in your hands as to require a conversation at least. I get this is not the story King is interested in, but this kind of carelessness is distracting.
“Malignant” felt like a pastiche of a bunch of different horror films, and not necessarily the good parts. There’s too much that demands the audience not pay attention to facts, and when it decides to be John Wick at the end, I admit, I was enjoying it but it was a quintessential WTF moment. The main problem is the protagonist is never in any jeopardy for the majority of the film, which belies good horror tropes. It’s just kind of muddling mess. It in no way contributes to the genre the way Wan’s other films (Saw, Conjuring, Insidious) did, and I’m surprised he thinks it stands horror on its head. I think “It Follows” did more for horror in that regard while still maintaining a lot of the common trappings. Chloe’s Basket Case comparison was also spot on.
Dune! I’m surprised Jeff hadn’t read the book. Until a few years ago, I felt like I was the only person in the world who hadn’t. I was surprised more by what they kept from the book than what they cut, but I thought they gave short shrift to a lot of the elements of Dune’s worldbuilding (mentats, weirding fight, lack of computers). Jessica’s handmaiden is in the film longer as a corpse than as a living character. It’s weird to see a Dune movie in a post-Star Wars society. I wonder if people unfamiliar with Dune’s influence on SW think it’s just a pretentious ripoff. Until this movie came out, I would have tossed Dune in the heap of works who have been supplanted by the things they influenced. And finally, I don’t want to live in a world where Jason Momoa doesn’t have a beard. I’ve seen it, and it’s not for me.
When discussing Graeme chasing around a kid with a blonde mullet, all I could think of was a child with Joe Elliott of Def Leppard’s face running around. Definitely got a good laugh out of that.
I was down for the Tad Lesso joke, and didn’t disagree with Jeff’s assessment per se, but also didn’t find the problems to be as, well, problematic. They are there, to be sure. I honestly thought the episode (9?) before that Coach Beard episode was the last one of the season. Then we got the Coach Beard ep, and I thought, “OK, it is over, but this is just a little encore/aside.” So maybe the problem was it was too long? But I agree some characters were underdeveloped, like the new team captain, so they didn’t add anything to the show when the show decided it was their turn in the spotlight.
I have to second the issue with microphone issues on Graeme’s side. It also happens when it’s just him using his headset, and I feel this happened after he got his new computer? Maybe I’m imagining it.
Take the link, leave the cannoli:
https://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts4/WaitWhat331.mp3
You scared me there. After fast forwarding 90 minutes on the grounds I’d seen nothing discussed in the Chloe section, Jeff then suggested wrapping up. Thank goodness for Graeme’s reread.
Graeme is so right about the mess of Bendis’s plotting. I hated Rogol Zaar, and the sending of Jon into space, and the weird stuff about Lois living in a hotel… but his Action Comics Invisible Mafia story was generally great, and the relationship between Clark and Lois was wonderful. Heck, his Superman was altogether gorgeous, what a great guy! He also wrote a wonderful Supergirl.
Which brings us – finally! – to Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow, the Supergirl book for fans of… well, not Supergirl. If you’ve still not read even the first issue, Jeff, here’s a précis
#1 Supergirl is friendless and drunk.
#2 Supergirl is asleep on a space bus.
#3 Supergirl is smart and caring, I know this woman!
#4 Supergirl stands by as a guy is stoned to death.
#5 Supergirl is sick and asleep but her wee pal Ruthye saves the day.
Every issue – Ruthye reads from the thesaurus. God, she’s tedious.
So yes, issue three was good, I gave it a very positive review. Apart from that, it’s Ruthye Ruthye Ruthye, who Tom King claimed would be our new favourite character. Well, by issue five she’s bearable, but she’s not who I’m shelling out good money to enjoy. And yet the whole story is told from her perspective – Kara is cameoing in ‘her’ book. If ever a comic book was indicative of King’s ‘I have a story, which character don’t you care about, DC?’ approach, this is it. The good reviews I’ve seen come from Tom King fans and/or people who don’t give a stuff about Supergirl. Check out the responses to my reviews, or Anj’s over at Supergirl Comic Box Commentary – longtime Kara fans don’t see a Supergirl series.
This is King pushing his new character Ruthye – named after his niece, Ruthie – at the expense of Supergirl. I’m not against characters changing, but not overnight. One month Supergirl is helping out her cousin, his kid and his clone in Metropolis, and the love between them is spoken and evident, the next she’s getting pissed in a space bar alone, with no one to celebrate turning 21 with. Months have passed in the course of this series and there’s no indication anyone misses her.
Oh, and King seems to have killed off Krypto. He may be hanging on, I’m holding out for the Survival Zone.
Honestly though, DC seems not to give a stuff about Supergirl, if Editorial doesn’t actually actively hate her. In the last decade she’s joined the Red Lanterns, gone dark multiple times, been seen as a sad Future State spinster… it’s thoroughly depressing.
Please Jeff, have a read as soon as you’re able.
In other news, don’t worry if you can’t get all the shows in for December, so you miss a Drokk…
Y’all are so wrong on movies.
Annette: five stars, movie the of the year. I BAWLED at the last scene.
Malignant: STINKY! There’s some cool kills at the beginning and the end, but the whole middle section is just dull dull dull.
Also, I’d really love it if Chloe and Graeme used separate microphones while recording. When both are recording, it’s very hard to hear either of them, especially Chloe.
Oh, Ed. If only I had a heart as pure as yours, at least where Annette is concerned.
And I know what you mean about the separate mic recording though don’t quite know how to address (short of them both getting on separatte laptops and headsets which I might recommend, even though it cuts down on the amount of in-person tattling they can do on one another).
I never expected that Graeme would be a person ensuring ‘that music like (that) wouldn’t die.’ Jings, etc. In my teens i loved ‘Dune’, but was progressively more disappointed by each succeeding volume. Finally tapped out after ‘God Emperor of-‘. Do not recall the horniness of books two and three, but that’s likely on me. I’ve also been left wondering what it says about me that it was a trans friend who discouraged me from watching ‘Sucker Punch.’
1:33:00, welp, that’s me dropping the podcast :D
You didn’t mention the times Malcolm McDowell appeared on the Teen Titans cartoon as the Mad Mod! Malcolm McDowell also appears in the recent series Scooby-Doo and Guess Who? which featured a different (weird) guest star in every episode. In addition to Batman, Wonder Woman, and The Flash they meet Steve Buscemi, Alton Brown, Jason Sudeikis (that guy again), and more. (I’ve only actually watched one episode, but it looks like there’s an episode where all the voice actors appear as themselves.)
“At the request of Malcolm McDowell, Mystery Inc. travels to his estate just outside Santa Barbara, California in order to help solve the mystery of the Chronobeast and why it is pursuing him. While filming a Hollywood movie about time travel decades prior, he became deeply interested in the theoretical physics behind actual time travel in real life, cracking the code after many years of research. He escorts them into his secret underground lab before showing off his time machine which is made in the form of a pedal powered carousel featuring antique style “Big Wheel” bicycles on the outer track. Velma barely has time to get a call from her future self before the Chronobeast is hot on their heels, leaving the time machine as their only route of escape.”
I’ve just read the 5th issue of the Supergirl series and am puzzled by the mechanic of the escape. I understand that things are better for a kryptonian after night falls on a world with a kryptonite sun, but just flying off into space wouldn’t be safe because it’s night. Maybe Supergirl thinks she can keep the shadow of the planet between her and the sun until she’s far enough away for the radiation not to weaken her catastrophically in the vacuum of space, but the consequences are so significant, especially when someone else’s life is in your hands as to require a conversation at least. I get this is not the story King is interested in, but this kind of carelessness is distracting.
“Malignant” felt like a pastiche of a bunch of different horror films, and not necessarily the good parts. There’s too much that demands the audience not pay attention to facts, and when it decides to be John Wick at the end, I admit, I was enjoying it but it was a quintessential WTF moment. The main problem is the protagonist is never in any jeopardy for the majority of the film, which belies good horror tropes. It’s just kind of muddling mess. It in no way contributes to the genre the way Wan’s other films (Saw, Conjuring, Insidious) did, and I’m surprised he thinks it stands horror on its head. I think “It Follows” did more for horror in that regard while still maintaining a lot of the common trappings. Chloe’s Basket Case comparison was also spot on.
Dune! I’m surprised Jeff hadn’t read the book. Until a few years ago, I felt like I was the only person in the world who hadn’t. I was surprised more by what they kept from the book than what they cut, but I thought they gave short shrift to a lot of the elements of Dune’s worldbuilding (mentats, weirding fight, lack of computers). Jessica’s handmaiden is in the film longer as a corpse than as a living character. It’s weird to see a Dune movie in a post-Star Wars society. I wonder if people unfamiliar with Dune’s influence on SW think it’s just a pretentious ripoff. Until this movie came out, I would have tossed Dune in the heap of works who have been supplanted by the things they influenced. And finally, I don’t want to live in a world where Jason Momoa doesn’t have a beard. I’ve seen it, and it’s not for me.
When discussing Graeme chasing around a kid with a blonde mullet, all I could think of was a child with Joe Elliott of Def Leppard’s face running around. Definitely got a good laugh out of that.
I was down for the Tad Lesso joke, and didn’t disagree with Jeff’s assessment per se, but also didn’t find the problems to be as, well, problematic. They are there, to be sure. I honestly thought the episode (9?) before that Coach Beard episode was the last one of the season. Then we got the Coach Beard ep, and I thought, “OK, it is over, but this is just a little encore/aside.” So maybe the problem was it was too long? But I agree some characters were underdeveloped, like the new team captain, so they didn’t add anything to the show when the show decided it was their turn in the spotlight.
I have to second the issue with microphone issues on Graeme’s side. It also happens when it’s just him using his headset, and I feel this happened after he got his new computer? Maybe I’m imagining it.