Wait, What? Ep. 216: Twee from the Get-Go

January 15, 2017


0:00-34:58: Greetings, and wishes for a happy new year!  Believe it or not, we are super-hasty in this part and in literally less than a minute we are discussing….Rogue One: A Star Wars Story!  Jeff finally saw it after hearing good things about it and…well….yeah.  A little disappointed, y’all. Turns out Graeme didn’t like it much, either, so listen to a lot of interstellar griping with the occasional tie to a useful article.  FULL SPOILERS! JEFF TALKING ABOUT METATEXT! LOTS OF GRIPING! STEERING US INTO MODERN AMERICAN POLITICS STARTING AROUND 23:09 (hey, this was recorded on the day Trump shit-talked John Lewis) AND EMERGING AROUND 34:58.
34:58-1:05:13: Okay, it’s not too hard to imagine how we got from Trump to Marvel, I hope, but yeah that’s where we ended up, considering Marvel has been doing some really strange stuff recently? “Free” overships, Secret Empire and its promotional art (with a long digression from us about how well Black Panther is currently selling), and then we’re talking about the casting call descriptions for The Inhumans TV show. Also discussed: Imax, Who Watches The Watchmen in Imax?, the opening to the theatrical release of Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, the Sinbad movie that never happened, Candle Cove, interviewing Max Landis, and all too much more.
1:05:13-1:16:54: Other things Jeff didn’t enjoy and is surprised and baffled he didn’t: Superman #14 by Peter J. Tomasi, Patrick Gleason, Ivan Reis and Joe Prado featuring characters invented by Grant Morrison for Multiversity.  Also discussed:  the next stage in the Rebirth master plot with the Batman/Flash crossover and more.
1:16:54-1:28:07: Oh, and another thing that Marvel is doing that’s weird and does not seem good: modifying their digital code plan so you no longer get a digital copy of the issue you’re buying!  Jeff talks about how that and Rebirth’s publishing schedule may be pushing him to make a hard decision he doesn’t necessarily want to make.
1:28:07-1:49:10: Graeme re-read Morrison’s run on New X-Men and also Neil Gaiman’s Book of Magic!  What’d he think? And how much will Jeff interject? (the answer: “a lot” probably is not that much of a spoiler, sadly.)
1:49:10-2:16:36: By very sad contrast, Jeff finished the digital trade of Son of Satan Classic, a big ol’ collection of one of the stranger heroes from Marvel’s very strange superhero horror phase.  Jeff talks about the character, why the character doesn’t work, and why Son of Satan #8 is the only SoS comic you really need. Also discussed: misunderstanding superhero comics and Understanding Comics; Tom Scioli and more.
2:16:36-2:43:41: In talking about books where we actively find ourselves eager to find out what happens next, Graeme talks about enjoying the velocity of Justice League vs. Suicide Squad. Also discussed: the last issue of Civil War II, the first issue of Unstoppable Wasp #1, the most recent issues of Moon Knight by Jeff Lemire, Greg Smallwood, Francesco Francavilla, Wilfredo Torres, and James Stokoe, Plus a lot of other comics we’ve read!
2:43:41-end:  Closing comments! But first:  We make a plan for a January podcast episode!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and  on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
Next week:  Next week is another Wait, What?! (Wait, What?) Come back and join us, won’t you?


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12 comments on “Wait, What? Ep. 216: Twee from the Get-Go

  1. Jeff Lester Jan 15, 2017

    And for those of you still into that link-only action in 2017:


  2. Two thoughts on todays podcast:

    1) Do you think that the badly drawn feet on Deadpool are a homage to the character’s creator?


    2) I’m always late to get in a listener’s question so I thought I’d try and get one in early this year. Your discussion of Morrison’s ambitions and experiences with Marvel sound incredibly similar to those of one of the podcast’s favourite writers, especially on the fantastic Four. Is Grant Morrison the new Steve Englehart? Discuss.

  3. Holy fucking shit that image is bad

  4. daustin Jan 17, 2017

    I always loved the old Buck Rogers opening, but, holy crap, never saw the theatrical opening. Amazingly ill-conceived, thanks for filling in this pop culture gap. Also, I would totally read a dark Jabberjaw remake. But only if he has the same speech mannerisms while eating people. Put Garth Ennis on it. Recently took my kids to an “Art of Hanna Barbera” exhibit at the Norman Rockwell Museum – they had Jabberjaw proof of concept art that was pretty entertaining.

    And Black Bolt does look truly terrible in that picture. Also Black Widow looks about 10 years old, and Deadshot and Captain America both look like little people.

  5. You’re right about Son of Satan. The covers images look like they could have just been traced over Sub-Mariner with the trident and all. Have they ever met?

  6. I agree with you gents, that the comic books of my youth are, in retrospect, not the same as I remember. I was a huge 70’s Marvel junkie. I recently bought a bunch of trades: Deathlok, Black Panther Jungle Action, Guardians of the Galaxy, Master of Kung Fu, Iron Fist, Howard the Duck, Warlock. This stuff was like gold when I was a kid. Eagerly waiting month to month for the next issue (hoping the Dreaded Deadline Doom wouldn’t strike). My present day reality of reading these books just doesn’t live up to the rosey nostalgia I had for these characters and stories from my youth. Of course, I didn’t know then what I know now. For their time, these were great books with exciting colorful characters and some of the best mythic tales that comics had to offer. The world was way different back then. No video games, no comic book movies, no cell phones. I thought I would feel more wistful reading these trades. I’m mostly surprised how empty and disappointed I feel re-reading these stories. I guess time changes everything.

    By the way Jeff, someone already stole your brilliant Son of Satan tv show premise. It’s called “Lucifer.” It’s based on the Vertigo comic, which is itself, an updated version of Son of Satan.

    • tim rifenburg Jan 18, 2017

      Sometimes it is fun to revisit the books of our youth and other times it makes you wonder why you thought they were good to begin with. I think whenever you reread things from your “golden age” you have to go in knowing they won’t be the same. Your not the same person and your maturity and sophistication will usually dull the impact of the initial feelings you had when you first read them. Still a lot of things are fun to look at with fresh eyes and some things still hold up remarkably well. Yes sometimes they seem over written or plot points are jarring but they still have a pull to them. I have been rereading in dribs and drabs Master of Kung Fu Omnibus 1 and it has been a lot of fun seeing the pieces come together and seeing the book grow and change. Some of the prose is a bit much and you can see a lot of pop culture and pulp influences stick out. But that is also because I am more aware of that stuff and I am now bringing a knowledge base that I did not have when I first read them. Part of the fun, but also makes me a little more critical. Comes with the territory with age. Also it is nice that I get the opportunity to revisit these things. Who would have thought Son of Satan or Master of Kung Fu would ever get a trade or be seen as worthy of one.

  7. Kevin Donlan Jan 17, 2017
  8. Graeme: “Neil Gaiman has always been twee.”

    THANK YOU!!!!!!1111 I tried to read Sandman three different times, at ages 18, 21, and 25 and each time I thought it was horrible and cringe-y. I kept coming back because I thought with its reputation I must be wrong, but after reading “Goodnight Batman” and hearing Gaiman weave his wonderful web of whimsical bullshit in interviews (most annoyingly to me in the Jonathan Ross Steve Ditko documentary), I figured it was okay if I didn’t give this guy any more of my money.

    • Zaragosa Jan 19, 2017

      Totally agree on Gaiman. I have tried valiantly to read Sandman, Violent Cases, Mr. Punch, and Eternals. I never finish. I never care enough.

    • saxman69 Jan 19, 2017

      I forced my way through the first four trades of Sandman and I had to stopped. I was bored out of my mind. Gaiman is a non addictive substitute for Sominex sleeping tablets. I cannot recollect a title with the same mix of literary pretension, pseudo-profundity, humourless poe-faced characters and glacial pacing, as Sandman.

  9. Mike Loughlin Jan 22, 2017

    1) John Cassaday: I thought he lost a step when he was doing Astonishing X-Men. It just didn’t look as good as Planetary. The figures often looked off, especially the faces. I thought he was in an artistic tailspin after a series of bad Secret Avengers covers and then Uncanny Avengers, but he righted himself a bit with Star Wars. This promo, though, looks like it took him about a half hour to draw with no revisions. Wow, that’s ugly!

    2) Jeff, did you read Hellstorm, specifically the Warren Ellis issues (12-21; I don’t remember much about issues 1-11). 16 year-old me loved them, and one issue terrified me. I haven’t read them in years so I can’t say how well they hold up, but I’m curious what you’d make of them.

    3) I wish New X-Men hadn’t been buried after it concluded, but very few other writers could have made the series work. X-Men should always include an aspect of change and pushing things forward but most writers and editors of of Big 2 super-hero comics don’t work that way. I wish we’d seen more of the special class, mutants starting to be accepted, and the X-Corporation, however.