http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts2/WaitWhat247.mp3
[apologies if that link doesn’t turn into something you can auto-play. I have no idea why it’s acting up, but hopefully have got the damn episode encoded elsewhere…]
0:01-13:13: Welcome! Graeme announces he is weirdly crabby; Jeff announces he just had a visit from Mr. David Wolkin; and there’s a terrifying story about the best pizza place in Portland going *too* Portland, a profile about the man behind Dave’s Killer Bread, and much more “not yet” talk. Don’t worry! comic book talk is coming!
13:13-1:08:08: In fact, it’s here! Our ALL-SPOILERS, WE GIVE-IT-ALL-AWAY talk about Avengers: Infinity War has arrived. Discussed: Some really smart choices; what happened to Hawkeye; what are the gimmes for the sequel, including Jeff’s beautiful theory that Graeme is more or less entirely sure will not happen; the JMS-ification of MCU Spider-Man; the bit that broke the movie for Graeme; Jeff’s pinko anxiety about the MCU’s neolib anxiety; the Kingsman: The Secret Service connection; the choices made for MCU Thanos; and more (Carboat)!
1:08:08-1:21:31: In fact, Carboat leads us into a discussion of contrarian social media and the motivations behind it; 9/11 and superhero movies, which lead us to…
1:21:31-1:33:06: Actual comic book talk! About comics! Jeff just read Dead Dead Demon’s Dededede Destruction, Vol. 1 by Inio Asano, and it gave him an abundance of feels! We circle back to the MCU and the military-industrial complex; how Marvel Comics treats the MIC, reflected in, for example, the work of Brian Michael Bendis.
1:33:06-1:55:02: Speaking of Bendis: how is he going to fit into the DCU, considering some of his takes on things at Marvel? Are we going to see something different from him, considering he’s writing Superman, who, as Graeme puts it, “is one of the more establishment characters.” Which ropes us into a discussion of DC Nation #0: the Bendis story in it, but also the pieces in the recent free (or near-free) comic. Also discussed: Justice League: No Justice #1; Dial L for Loeb; discussing Bendis’ final Marvel work, including his work on Iron Man; a summing up of the Superman and Action Comics Rebirth titles up to now; and more.
1:55:02-2:19:48: A comic book round-up of various titles, including: Batman #46 by Tom King and Tony Daniel! Jeff does not like it, but can give a spirited defense of it nonetheless? Discussed: Alan Moore; cheap comedy; and more; You Are Deadpool #1 by Al Ewing and Salva Espin—a Deadpool comic that is a Choose Your Own RPG comic! Absolutely an impressive formalistic achievement…but then why are both Graeme and Jeff left a bit cold? Additionally Jeff caught up on issues #3-5 of Exit Stage Left: The Snagglepuss Chronicles by Mark Russell, Mike Freeman, and Mark Morales, and wanted to check in with Graeme about his feelings about the book; and Jeff also caught up with something like six chapters of Platinum End by Ohba and Obata, and is happy to report…he now kinda maybe likes it? Plus: Vampire Tales, Vol. 3!
2:19:48-2:38:53: Finally, a very important Infinity Wars-related question: if you could cast Hawkeye but only with an actor named Jeremy, who would you pick? Also discussed: CQ, what happened to Josh Holloway; are we ever going to see Gambit: The Movie; the Avengers relaunch and the preview of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ Captain America; and more.
2:38:53-end: Closing comments! Look for us on Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr, and on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
NEXT WEEK: Baxter Building! Join us for a discussion of Fantastic Four Annual #s 19, 22-24, but also feel free to check out the 40 pages of Barry Windsor-Smith’s unpublished Thing graphic novel that several people have pointed us to. We probably won’t discuss it….but we might?
And in case you need the link again for cutting and pasting and whatnot:
http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts2/WaitWhat247.mp3
My speculation about the Hulk resolution is that we get something like Pantheon era Hulk. That means he becomes a different, more pro-active story generator in the next phase of Marvel movies.
Regarding Hemsworth, I’d love to see him in something more like a Cary Grant role. Considerable charm, a willingness to look silly, capable of action, big, good-looking guy. Yes, I am hoping for the screw-ball comedy revival.
I think it was the right call to not have Thanos be in love with the personification of death, though it ruins the end credits joke of the Avengers where he smiles at the idea of courting death.
You couldn’t have the personification of death because the last movie in the series had the personification of death as the villain. I though they’d just use Hela for this but that’s a few too many siblings of Thor being the Avengers’ bad guys.
As for the films reflecting the politics of the day, when Captain America asked, “Did we lose?” at the end it really felt like the night Trump was elected. A big evil guy obsessed with his daughter who thinks only he can save the world.
To take it a step too far, the country is so divided right now that literally dividing it also rang true.
Sorry, it was Quill who said, “Did we just lose?”
Obviously the Jeremy who should’ve played Hawkeye is Jeremy Allen White from “Shameless”. That guy has the right look and personality to play Silver Age Hawkeye, don’t you think?
why did Drax “die” at the end with everybody else? since his planet was already culled, shouldn’t he be alive and kicking? This just bugs me because, like Jeff, Batista’s Drax has totally grown on me
My big ‘Huh?” moment was when Thor turned up on Earth. I can imagine explanations (e.g., what he meant earlier on was that the Avengers could protect the Mind Stone for the moment, until he got his shiny new toy). But the film doesn’t give any of the possible explanations, and it’s not a terribly good idea to distract me with thinking about them during what’s mean to be this big action moment. Similarly, why does Heimdall teleport the Hulk away, and not Thor? (Assuming that he can do only one.)
On the other hand, I’m not bothered with Graeme McMillan’s editor’s objection to Thor’s shiny new toy not killing Thanos. That’s a purely narrative objection — according to the standard rules of storytelling that should be when Thor’s vow to kill Thanos pays off. But that’s the point. Those standard rules of storytelling are why the viewer expects it to work, so manipulating them is part of creating a twist that’s not actually very surprising unless you manipulate narrative conventions to create false expectations. (Give a character the ability to do anything, and that character can do anything, so there’s every reason to expect Thanos to win.) Within the internal logic of the film, there’s no reason why it has to kill Thanos more quickly than he can close his fist, which is all he needs to do.
Obviously, this is part of how the film isn’t really breaking those conventions at all. Thanos is the protagonist of this film. Appearing to have lost, then quipping “You should have gone for the head,” then suddenly reversing everything and winning is exactly the sort of thing that the protagonists in action movies do. It’s just that usually, the protagonist is the hero.
I agree with what our hosts observed about how leaving the original Avengers unerased is clearly setting them up for taking the role of protagonist back from Thanos. I’m a bit worried that, after this, that won’t seem satisfying so much as going backwards in a tedious way.
Plus, I feel that that role should actually go to Gamora inside the Soul Stone — that’s what follows naturally from this film. The only times when Thanos was onscreen and wasn’t presented as the protagonist was when he was dealing with Gamora. She’s basically the only other actual character in this film, in the traditional sense.
(Not a criticism. Everyone has noted how the film doesn’t waste time and simply assumes that you already care about these people, piggybacking on the work that’s been put into them in other films. This works really, really well.)
As for being in love with Death, it’s better, but, as Ian Boothby noted above, it comes a little soon after Hela in the last Thor film to do it exactly as a female personification of Death.
One could, however, just name her Entropy or whatever and have her be functionally the same. Make her the personification of the inevitable end of the universe. (Yes, Thanos wants to kill people, but some blather about life being the highest form of complexity will do nicely there.)
I think if they’d started seeding the notion of personified metaphysical concepts after the first Avengers film, they’d have been able to do a variant on the traditional Thanos. Places to put this: the second Thor movie, Doctor Strange.
On “diversions” and the 10 minutes of bakery talk, I remember how you had a special called “Wake What” to mourn the Human Torch and purposefully refused to even mention the issue during the episode, I expect this kind of behavior from you by now.
I love it when our hosts wax rhapsodically about the culinary delights to be found at Waffle Window. I will be going there the next time I am in Portland.
Action #1000 made me think of Superman #400, they’re similar in that they’re comics about what Superman means. However, while there’s a lot of good drawing in #1000, put it beside #400 and the current house style is striking in #1000. Superman #400 has strips drawn by Al Williamson, Wendy PinI, Michael Kaluta, Klaus Janson, Frank Millar, Marshall Rogers, Joe Orlando and Steranko. It also has pin-ups from Jack Kirby, Will Eisner, Brian Bollard, Bill Sienkiewicz, Berni Wrightson, Walt Simonson, Jerry Robinson and Mike Grell. Also a cover by Howard Chaykin and a Ray Bradbury introduction. Script was Elliott Maggin. I really like when such a diversity of visual approach is welcome. This is probably an unfair comparison, since I am old and the 80’s were probably my favourite DC decade.
Informer by Snow is my pick for Graeme’s next one hit wonder reference. Please please please….
Thanks for being the best comics podcast.
I’m a Kiwi set builder living in Sydney
Josh Holloway = Ghost Rider