0:01-23:08: Greetings from Graeme “Burp!” McMillan and Jeff “Saliva!” Lester, where your two faithful podcasters are here at your service, despite problems with taxes, and talking, and breathing. Thanks to tax prep, we look back at the state of digital affairs for Jeff’s library with talk about the amazing month of March and April 2018; do a quick review of the state of comic streaming services we use and what’s changed about them; more singing of the praises of Hoopla (for comics, anyway); whether Jeff should get the DC Universe app, and more.
23:08-35:50: From there, a sort of strange left turn: the new redband trailer for Hellboy resurfaces a tweet from B.P.R.D. and Hellboyverse writer John Arcudi. Did Arcudi leave Hellboy and B.P.R.D. (and Guy Davis leave comics altogether) based on how they were handled and/or (un)compensated in relation to this? The Magic Eightball says “All Signs Point To ‘Comics Will Break Your Heart.’” Also discusssed: reaction to the original trailer; reaction to rough cuts of the film; Vague Recollections of Forgotten Dinner Parties; the filmography of Neil Marshall; the strangeness of having people hype things that don’t seem like what they’re hyping; and more.
35:50-53:52: The Hellboy thing may leave a bad taste in your mouth if you’re a B.P.R.D. fan, but Jeff’s not really into it or Hellboy. He is, of course, alternately appalled, guilty about, and mystified by the Wikipedia summary of Doomsday Clock, Geoff Johns and Gary Frank taking the Watchmen characters into the DCU. Graeme has read issue #9 of the book (not out until later this week so Graeme does superhuman work in trying to avoid spoilers of any kind) and we discuss what’s come before, what might be coming next, and what Johns is trying to say (apart from “back up the money truck”).
53:52-1:01:51: And from our discussion about narrative jumps, Jeff goes on to mention the first five issues of Exorsisters by the talented team of Ian Boothby and Gisele LaGace. Jeff is heavily in the tank for these two, so what did he think of the book? The answer may surprise you…or at least baffle you? (Jeff is clearly baffled, as you’ll hear.) Jeff summarizes the book, talks about its charms, and entreats Graeme to read the issues so we can talk about it more.
1:01:51-1:04:57: Jeff’s got a throughline in mind as he transitions from Exorsisters to Action Comics #1008 by Brian Michael Bendis and the terrific Steve Epting. (Jeff really didn’t talk about it here, but man does Epting’s stuff look gorgeous on the DC characters!) That throughline, fortunately or unfortunately, tiptoes around Crabby Jeff and tries to hew close to the path of Diplomatic Jeff. (There’s also an all-too-brief shoutout to Satoru Noda’s Golden Kamuy, which is still flat-out excellent.)
1:04:57-1:53:43: Part of why Epting and Noda get short-shrift is Graeme chimes in with his experience about catching up on Tom King’s Batman, which Graeme hadn’t read since September. There’s been some grumbling about the pacing and storytelling choices King has made with the title since issue #50—do those grumblings have merit for someone reading all those issues in a oner? (1er?) Also discussed: Heroes in Crisis #6; subtext becoming text; the futility of a work-for-hire creator as embodied in a work-for-hire creation; Batman RIP; Mortal Kombat and common ground; movie violence in the ‘80s; and, quite obviously, us back to circling around Doomsday Clock again (ha, “circling!”)
1:40:15-1:53:43: Graeme still hasn’t seen Aquaman! But that may well be rectified *very* soon, thank goodness. And Jeff re-saw Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse, and has a lot of thoughts about, many of which are informed by…Natalie Nourigat’s I Moved to Los Angeles to Work in Animation? Really? Warning: big ol’ spoilers for the movie and in-depth descriptions so take a pass if you haven’t yet seen this (really excellent) film.
1:53:43-2:05:35: Graeme has picked up a bunch of old 80 pg. dollar Superman Family comics, describes ‘em for our delight, and sings the praises of low-stakes/no-stakes comics.
2:05:35-2:20:21: As for Jeff and the old comics routine, thanks to the wonderful David Wolkin, Jeff has read issue #131 of Dark Horse Presents from 1998, and issues #1 and #2 of Nightmares from Doug Moench, Paul Gulacy, and Don McGregor, published by Eclipse all the way back in 1985!
2:20:21-2:37:33: News? Well, maybe there’s some somewhere, but the only stuff we can think of worth mentioning is, as Graeme rightly points out, everyone should check out the trio of speeches given at ComicsPro by ex-DC Marketing Director Bob Wayne, and retailers Brian Hibbs and Joe Field. And there’s also a bit of a lazy roundup of stories, or maybe as much roundup as a week that includes “Marvel Meow.”
2:37:33-end: Closing comments! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes!Instagram! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr, and on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for her continuing support of this podcast.
[Not actually the bear bathing image Jeff talks about in the episode, but let’s roll with it] http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts2/WaitWhat258.mp3 0:01-15:53: Greetings! After a very long time, Jeff “Japan!” Lester and Graeme “NYCC!” McMillan have returned after…
First, big thanks to Ed Corcoran for providing the perfect title for this episode!
Second, here we are! This episode is a little early due to: the holiday weekend, some weird scheduling, and the desire to get a jump on the coming week which promises to be a bit of a sledge hammer. So let us begin, shall we?
00:00-12:51: Greetings from Graeme “Cheers” McMillan and Jeff “Dora the Explorer” Lester, who are here once again for you! Not only do we mention those two TV shows in the first two minutes, we also talk about Spider-Gwen #1, as read recently on Marvel Unlimited (under threat of physical violence)! Although we both enjoyed the first issue, we talk about Jeff’s impressions of the book based on later issues, whether the book’s appeal rests solely with the creative team or not, whether or not the term “What-If’ing” is a thing or not, and more. And this is also a fine time for Jeff to gripe about the Spider-Verse hardcover he got for super-cheap during an Amazon pricing SNAFU. Did Marvel take passive-aggressive revenge on the advance order pilferers? Or is it just that a lot of the stories at least semi-terrible? Discuss!
12:51-45:06: Then, our whistles whetted, it’s time for us to Q our little A’s off, with part two of our Q&A ‘cast, answering questions submitted to us by our mighty squad of patrons! First up is Chris Carfora, who asks: “1. Discussion Point: Have we reached the end of the age of Superhero comics? Seems like superhero movies are going through a bit of a golden age but i can’t say the same for the comics. With the reboots coming every two years now it just feels like the creators are constantly going over old territory and rehashing old ideas. Is there just not anything left to say about Superheroes? With the rise of independent comics and the availability of self-published comics through comixology and the like, do you foresee a shift away from superhero comics? 2. What would be your dream creative collaboration on your dream comic? Just to clarify, it can be past creators or current, so if you want Grant Morrison and Jack Kirby on Challengers of the Unknown go for it. 3. What cancelled or lapsed title would you most like to see resurrected? 4. In what way has the rise of marvel unlimited, comixology and other digital platforms changed the industry? Is this change a good thing?”
(Whew!) Discussed: the Direct Market; Jim Lee’s 1:5000 variant for Dark Knight III; Marvel’s troll response with a Deadpool variant cover; creator participation; Starbrand and Nightmask; the illusion of change versus the illusion of the illusion of change; Irredeemable, Incorrigible, Incorruptible, Incontinent, and Insufferable; Graeme not understanding Jeff at all; crazy lists of dream teams for his dream comics including the Steve Gerber comic in heaven; Jason Aaron and Jason Latour on the amazing Marvel character, Razorback; Al Ewing and Henry Flint on Fantastic Four; the sequel to last year’s Judge Dredd epic, Titan, again by Rob Williams and Henry Flint; Aimee Bender and Pascal Ferry on Machine Man; Graeme summarizes the short but lively run of DC’s The Chosen; the crazy price discrepancies between some digital trades on both Marvel and Comixology (such as the Skull The Slayer and Weirdworld trades which are $10 cheaper on the Kindle); and more.
45:06-58:27: Carlos Aguilar asks: “1. Let’s say Image was formed in the 80s instead of the 90s, what 7 artists would you like to have seen leave Marvel (and if you want, DC) to form Image about ten years earlier? 2. Tons of Star Wars news coming out, so, Let’s say you got to pick creative teams for 4 different Star Wars books. What would the four titles be, and who would you have working on them? 3. Who would you like to see run the new incarnation of Heavy Metal instead of Grant Morrison?”Discussed: Miller, Byrne, Perez, Golden, Simonson, Chaykin, and Art Adams (or Dave Cockrum?; the WaP! newsletter and Creator Bill of Rights crowd; being burnt out on Star Wars on the eve of Force Friday; Marvel’s Darth Vader series by Kieron Gillen and Salvador Larroca; Fabio Moon and Gabriel Ba on Boba Fett; Jason Shiga on C-3PO and R2-D2; Richard Corben on Chewbacca; the return of Walt Simonson to Star Wars; Brandon Graham editing Heavy Metal; Douglas Wolk editing Heavy Metal; Warren Ellis editing Heavy Metal; and more.
58:27-1:04:09: Max Brown asks: “It’s been a little while since Jeff has posted or talked about Jason Shiga’s Demon- and since it was Jeff that got me and a bunch of others reading it, it would be great to hear his thoughts on how the book has gotten 10000000x more insane and awesome since then, and on the recent announcement that First Second will be publishing it in collections. Thanks!”Discussed:Jason Shiga’s Demon. [Please note: Jeff actually screws up his issue numbers by one. The amazing chase sequence is in issue #15 and the existential malaise is in issue #14.]
1:04:09-1:36:16: Kevin Moreau asks, “1. What other podcasts, comics-related or otherwise, do either/both of you listen to/recommend? (Aside from Rachel and Miles and Into It, although please feel free to plug those, as well.) 2. What are your go-to sites/publications for comics news, insight, etc., other than your own website and Graeme’s various employers? 3. What are Marvel’s biggest problems today, and what can be done to correct them 3a. Are Secret Wars/All-New-All-Different and the continuing push to make Inhumans happen signs of creative bankruptcy? 4. I know I’ve read (Wait What mascot/patron saint) Steve Englehart comics over the years, but what would you point to as his most important/must-read work, or where should someone start in order to gain a greater appreciation? 5. Would you ever consider a Wait What Facebook group as a place for fans of the show to gather together and talk comics and related interest?” Discussed: House to Astonish; Silence!; Comic Books Are Burning in Hell; Travis Bickle on the Riviera; the Nerdist Writer’s Room; the Guardian’s political podcast; 538’s What’s The Point; a Slate podcast called Working; Serial; Bleeding Cool and its recent trend for crazily biased news stories; The Outhousers; the terrific comics analysis columns by Paul O’Brien and Marc-Olivier Frisch; the surprising read that is comicbook.com; the surprisingly apt metaphor to describe DC’s new relationship to the Direct Market; the Steve Englehart stories you should start with; and more.
1:36:16-1:41:18: Paul Lai asks, “Seems we’ve thrown up our hands after Golden, Silver, Bronze, and the unfortunately named Modern Ages. Should we take for granted that comics are so diverse, diffuse, and mainstream now that maybe marking eras like that will be impossible/irrelevant? Or what about calling it a “Spectrum Age” where all that can really be taken for granted is the diversity?” (Paul actually had a long article he’d written about this that wasn’t accessible when Jeff tried to read it beforehand but it’s up now and it’s a pretty great read that makes a pretty compelling argument.)Discussed: Our less compelling arguments.
1:41:18-1:44:53: John Kim asks, “There are a lot of resets to the status quo in comic (Spiderman, Batman) after said comics try something different. Are the reasons for the resets mainly fan backlash and low sales? Here I am trying to sneak in another question… Are there any good legacy characters in comics?”Discussed: Wally West, Wally West, and Wally West; Batman: Year Zero; and more.
1:44:53-1:57:46: Lewis Smith asks, “Of all the aborted story-lines, new directions, and false starts you guys have read in superhero comics, what was the one you really wanted to see play out?”Discussed: Firestorm as a fire elemental; Steve Englehart’s Fantastic Four and West Coast Avengers runs; the Amazing Spider-Man and headcanon; does Marvel need a reboot; and more.
1:57:46-2:08:12: Ed Corcoran asks, “In a couple of previous episodes, you’ve mentioned the effect the library market has on how trade paperback collections are made and marketed. Can you talk a little more about the economics of that? What kind of comics rely so heavily on libraries? What do libraries look for? Also, are there any plans to collect the Avengers read-through into one big mega-episode?” We’ve tied this in with Drew Meger who asks, “It feels like every episode we hear a mention of some comic or other borrowed from your local library. As a librarian who buys comics for his library, I need to know: What comic titles would you want to see in your Ideal Library? Should we focus on the critical Top 10 list darlings and easy entry points for new readers or should we go obscure and get the titles readers might have been interested in, But not 30 dollar hardbound trade interested?”Discussed: how little we actually know about the economics of graphic novels and the library market; Kate Beaton, Vertical, Fantagraphics, Drawn and Quarterly and Pantheon; a bad maritime metaphor from Jeff, and more.
2:08:12-2:15:48: Paul Spence asks, “Would the Whatnauts offer their views on Kirby’s Marvel series The Eternals. I read The Eternals for the first time this year courtesy of marvel Unlimited and it provoked a mixed response from me. The mythology appeared to be Fourth World Lite mashed up with some of the ideas from Kirby’s 2001, and a serving from Erich Von Daniken’s Chariots of the Gods. The Fourth World of the New Gods becomes the Fourth Host of the Eternals and DC’s Orion becomes Ikaris in The Eternals. This does appear to be a case where Kirby was recycling ideas. My second Kirby related question pertains to the Joe Casey penned Captain Victory and the Galactic Rangers. You covered the early issues in the series on the podcast and expressed both hope, and some trepidation, that it could be a masterpiece, or it could become a train wreck. Now that the mini-series has finished what do you think of the entire run?”Discussed:The Eternals by Jack Kirby, and Joe Casey’s Captain Victory and the Galactic Rangers; and not much more.
2:15:48-2:22:55: Louie Whitford asks, “Why didn’t Eclipse or First Comics survive? Or: What’s your favorite Eclipse series?”Discussed: quick shout-outs for books like Badger, Aztec Ace by Doug Moench and Dan Day; Alec by Eddie Campbell; Sabre by Don McGregor and Billy Graham; Destroyer Duck by Jack Kirby and Steve Gerber; the end of First and Eclipse; and so on.
2:22:55-2:33:01: Michael Loughlin asks, “1) In your opinion, what recent comics (2000s & 2010s) will be regarded as classics in the future? 2) Of all the writers who never worked with him, which writer would have made a good scripter for Jack Kirby? Feel free to choose one of his contemporaries or a current writer.”Discussed; our weird handwringing about the term “classic,” Al Ewing’s Loki and Kieron Gillen’s Journey Into Mystery; Bryan Lee O’Malley’s Scott Pilgrim; and more.
2:33:01-end: Closing comments! Due to some crazy real-life events, I’ve cut out our talk of upcoming episodes and gone straight to Graeme telling you where you can find us on the Internet. Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Tumblr! And, of course, on Patreon where, as of this count, 109 patrons make this whole thing possible! Speaking of which, Jeff has an apology that, thanks to an incisive email from Steve H, we have been tardy in providing the “recommend a book for us to read” perk to long-time patrons. We are in the process of getting organized and it is coming….soon!
Whew! Okay, so we hope you enjoy this episode, keep an eye on this space for what’s coming next, and remember: keep reading those comic books—you never know when you’re going to spend two and a half hours talking about them!
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