0:00-3:38: Greetings! And welcome to episode 200, where our long-term special guest star, Technical Difficulties, almost dropped by for an opening visit. Those of you who’ve heard our early episodes recently might enjoy listening to Graeme and Jef try to reminisce about their early days when they can barely remember them.
3:38-33:29: And then it’s on to a discussion about Captain America: Civil War the movie that somehow both Graeme and Jeff saw during its first week of release.  Jeff liked it, Graeme didn’t, and so we’re off to the races!  FULL SPOILERS AHOY, so please do be careful if you haven’t seen it yet. (Because otherwise you might end up like Graeme, as this conversation will make clear.)   Discussed:  Batman vs. Stupidman; reasons why you might not thoroughly spoil a movie for yourself before you see it; Robert Downey Jr.’s performance in CA: Civil War; Tom Holland as Peter Parker/Spider-Man; Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa/Black Panther; the overstuffed nature of Marvel films; Emily VanCamp as Sharon Carter; J.Law vs. J.Gar vs. J.Lo vs. J.League; Joss Whedon, J.J. Abrams, and how the works at the front of the nerd zeitgeist age over time; good movies vs. good Marvel movies; the action sequences in CA: Civil War; John Wick and the legacy of Hong Kong movies; different special effect houses; Graeme shit-talking CA: Civil War in emails or not; and then…SPECIAL GUEST APPEARANCE BY ERNIE AND GUS-GUS! YAYYYYYY! (It’s like they knew it was our 200th episode!) (And yet Graeme swears to me he didn’t tell them.)
33:29-39:41: “Yes, yes,” you’re saying.  “I suppose I have enjoyed all two hundred or so episodes of Wait, What?  But I do wish they had more cheesy tie-in discussions to big movie events that one of them doesn’t even like…”  Well, face front, true believer, because we’ve organized the Wait, What? Civil War 200th Episode Event where each of us picked a team  of five comic book characters to fight for us!  Who will win?  #TeamGraeme,  who assembled two separate teams, or #TeamJeff, which assembled a team with *six* comic book characters?  (Maybe a more important question is, why can’t these guys follow their own rules?) Discussed: Wildfire from the Legion of Superheroes; erotic Sears bedsheets; Dave Cockrum and the secret word of the podcast, which when uttered leads to….
39:41-53:32:  As you probably know, Darwyn Cooke passed away the day we recorded this podcast, not long after it was announced he’d been fighting cancer.  Although Jeff thought we’d talk about Cooke and his legacy at the end of the episode, and Graeme was surprised we didn’t discuss it at the beginning, here we are talking about it now.
cooke new frontier
53:32-55:03: And so with that we’re back to our discussion of the Wait, What? Civil War Teams, this time picking up with #TeamJeff and the second team for #TeamGraeme.  And then it’s time for: CALLS FROM LISTENERS. In order to make it easier on my tippy-tappy little fingers, and also in order to provide you with a modicum of suspense, I will not transcribe the whole call but rather than provide you with a meaningful excerpt as provided by Google Voice’s auto-transcription feature, which as you can imagine is absolutely 100% accurate, for example:
55:03-1:02:57:  Here’s Zack:  “Gradulations on 202 question any crap man. You know so if there’s anything more we can do to make them to is interesting and failing that and if there’s anything they can do to make expensive and less paranoid. Thanks gradulations.”  Discussed:  X-Men fans, what makes the Inhumans interesting, and more.
1:02:57-1:05:13:  Here’s Aaron (lickthestar) from Detroit: “I remember the first time I came across your podcast kind of by chance after you getting back into comments after a long hiatus and I listen to you guys for an hour and a half rip apart on my favorite marvel comics and tell me what a horrible writer, pinnacle been disses […]Discussed: we are terrible human beings, Ernie and Gus-Gus have opinions; and more.
1:05:13-1:30:19:  Here’s Paul McCall (parts 1 and 2):  “Hello, my name is Paul mcAll and I’m a comic book attic and superhero Chunky […] I have not yet hurt. I know you both drunk or some kind of clear view website, but I want details.”  Discussed: DC’s 80 page and 100 page giants; when one becomes a Whatnaut; how the two of us met; writing the Onomatopoeia newsletter for Comix Experience; how we ended up doing the podcast;  influences on the podcast (for Jeff, anyway);
1:30:19-1:33:11:  Here’s Steve from Los Angeles:  “you guys are just f****** fantastic, and I will also say that the first time I listen to the show. I absolutely hated it, and I think I first turned in on some episode where there was a lengthy discussion of the waffle window and various. You know walkal related topics, and I was like what the f*** is this […]”  Discussed:  our secret ingredient.
1:33:11-1:34:32: Welcome, Peter from Atlanta:  “‘I’ve been a listener for about a year now, and I really enjoyed how much you guys just kind of break-ins it just feels like me and my friend alright conversations. I’ve had with friends and bars where it goes you start one place, and you end up of millions of miles away from where you are and so it’s on a few my hair thing about the show.[…]”  Discussed: THE TANGENTS
1:34:32-1:41:37:  And here’s Special Guest-Star Voodoo Ben!:  “I‘ve loved every minute of it to get to a classic wait what conundrum? I was wondering if you guys would consider. What if Jack Kirby’s post Marvel work on that community before as well this address.Discussed:  What waffles Jack Kirby’s DC work would be if Jack Kirby’s DC work (and some of his Pacific Comics work) were waffles.
1:41:37-1:43:09: Leef Smith of Mission Comics and Art: “I went back in I’ve actually listening to some of the first episodes this week, and it’s amazing how consistent you guys are alright.”  (Leef has the diction that Google Voice apparently loves because this auto-transcribed excerpt is very, very close to what he actually said. IMPRESSIVE!) Discussed (all too briefly):  Mission Comics and Art is a fantastic comic store in San Francisco and you should go for a visit if you haven’t already.
1:43:09-1:44:42:  Levi Tompkins is here to say, among other things: “I love you guys is rambling but they just thought well. I think they’re informative. I think they’re making me the email love comics, but also sometimes heat them[…]” Discussed:  victory via SCOIP; Jeff being unfair to Graeme, and the snarkiest intro Jeff has ever made.
1:44:42-1:47:57:  Matt Terl!  (Who really is one of our favorite people, and we had to badger him into calling):  “I figured I would do go up one of the old emails. I had sent you guys with a question that I want to point out you never ever answered posted to you know see if maybe you would take the time to answer it the question is this is from june 2012.”  Discussed: no, really, Matt, we love you; the JMS law; and more.
1:47:57-1:49:51:  David Morris from Bristol calling:  “David Morris calling from Bristol thanking you for 200 Apple Foods looking forward to more[…]” Discussed: David’s brilliant Wait, What parable.
1:49:51-1:51:01: And here’s Martin Gray [inaccurate transcript unavailable] who took time out for the excellent work he does over at Too Busy For A Girl to leave us a message.  Thank you Martin!
1:51:01-1:59:41:  And, similarly, here’s another delightful-but-impossible-to-distort-via-Google-Voice’s-autotranscription call, this time from Daniel McKay asking: if we could have a fantasy dinner party with anyone from comics, who would you invite and why?  Discussed:  Ryan North, Gil Kane, Alan Moore, Olive Byrne, and Jill Lepore’s The Secret History of Wonder Woman,  why there’s a transcription of an orgy, Clark Kent, Alec McGarrity, Kid Eternity, Wallace Wells, Diabolik, the best version of Clue, and more.
1:59:41-2:08:15: We are also lucky enough to get a message from Al Kennedy and Paul O’Brien of the brilliant House to Astonish! And they ask: “how do you see the comics landscape and your work in comics podcasting having changed since you started?”  Discussed:  Uh, exactly that, although Graeme comes up with much more well thought out points about the topic than Jeff.  (Sooooo much more thought out!)  But also: Bill Mantlo! Patreon!  and more!
2:08:15-2:12:23: And finally from Jay Edidin of Jay and Miles X-plain The X-Men: “As you look back over the first two hundred episodes, what do you want to revisit, and what are you looking forward to leaving in the dust?”   Discussed: Nashville, Jane The Virgin, and more.
Cooke Spirit
2:12:23-2:16:27: “Oh, but what about those listener questions?” you ask (which is itself a listener question, if you think about it).  Jeff was such a space cadet he didn’t think we got any but Graeme, fortunately, knows better.  However, there’s no way we’re going to be able to answer them this go-round so, episode 301, which will be the episode after next week’s Baxter Building episode, will tackle all those questions…and any more you want to send to !
2:16:27-end: Closing Comments!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr (where Graeme posted a really fantastic little Spider-Man story by Hannah Blumenreich.  If you haven’t seen it already, you should check it out)!
Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 125 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK:  It’s Baxter Building, Ep. 18! Read Fantastic Four issues #134-146 with us!

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16 comments on “Wait, What? Ep. 200: Bicentennial Battles

  1. Jeff Lester May 15, 2016

    And for those of you who are of the cut and paste into player persuasion:

  2. Matt M May 16, 2016

    The most surprising thing about Graeme’s take on Civil War is how surprised he sounds by his own opinion, given that it’s been the same opinion he’s had (to varying degrees) about almost every Marvel movie to date.

    • Robert G May 16, 2016

      Spoiler alert: Graeme didn’t like Civil War… wait, that’s not a spoiler. Duh!
      Not like any of us didn’t see that coming.

    • It’s funny because it’s true.

  3. JohnK_UK May 16, 2016

    Congrabumashons Grey Man und Jest! Aldays the must freendly ear oil und nebr less than grape! Hebes to the nest true mumbled haughty sods! Blessalalia from yaw pill, Jawn.

  4. Abhay May 16, 2016

    Congratulations, and thanks.

  5. Congratulations and thank you for supplying me with so much enjoyment over the last 200/280 podcasts. I work predominantly alone at home and listening to your conversations helps keep me sane!

    I’m in agreement with Graeme over Civil War and Batman vs Superman. As someone who works in licensing and animation, I’ve seen how Disney has become synonymous with animation to the point that all feature length cartoons follow roughly the same template, and it seems to me that the same thing is happening with Marvel and Superhero films. For all its (myriad) flaws, Batman vs Superman comes across as the product of a singular authorial vision, whereas there is precious little difference between many of the Marvel films since 2008. which may be why my favourites are Guardians, Ant-Man and iron Man 3, as all seem informed by a specific director voice. I’m also fascinated that many of the same criticisms of BvS can be laid at CW’s door (seriously, the film comes to a juddering halt for 10 minutes while we introduce Spider-man in exactly the same way criticisms of BvS said it came to a halt introducing the rest of the Justice League) which reinforces my belief that it’s the branding that is most important now.

    Thanks to your elegy I’ve come up with yet another reason to mourn the tragic loss of Darwyn Cooke: his attitude to superheroes would have made him the perfect writer/artist on the Fantastic Four, bringing back that sense of wonder from the space race, mixing it with multiple character arcs and making sure it is readable by all ages.

    Here’s to episode 300 in 20 podcast’s time!-) And are we then going to get the All New, All Different Heroes Reborn Rebirth 52 Wait, What?

  6. Full disclosure, the last of these superhero movies I went and saw in the theater was Ant-Man. I did end up watching a handi-cam youtube version of BvS (hated MoS so there was no way I was going to pay those people for any more of it but the critical bombast had me so curious).

    That out of the way I just find both approaches abysmal…Disney/Marvel’s assembly line Superhero Movie Machine vs. Zack Snyder’s jejune authorial take. On one hand I either end up being bored (in the case of Marvel’s movies) or hating these characters (in the case of DC).

    In this season of Decision 2016: Everyone Sucks!, I suppose if I had to choose I’d pick the one that bores me rather than the one that makes me hate it and everthing involved with it. Ultimately what I’m ending up doing is Option 3) skip the entire affair and do something I enjoy like listening to Wait, What talking about it.

    Congrats on 200 and thanks.

  7. Rob G May 17, 2016

    Hey guys, congrats! I love this podcast because I feel like I’m at a bar or comic shop or even possibly at the Waffle Window eavesdropping on a couple of close friends discussing whatever happens to be on their minds, be it Steve Englhart or colon cleanses, I very much enjoy when you digress and your conversation meanders. That’s part of the charm. Keep on keeping on!

  8. Kevin May 17, 2016

    I will skip the congratulations, which I proffered in an email after I tried to call the WW Tribute Line and got disconnected. Instead, I will simply say this:
    I will move heaven and earth for a Micronauts read-through. I can’t be the only person (aside from Graeme) who has fruitlessly searched the podcast realm for a discussion of this nature. Tell me what you require to make this happen!
    (Also, pursuant to your Inhumans discussion: I was far more intrigued by Abnett/Lanning’s take on the Inhumans in War of Kings–launching them into space and having them effectively take over the Kree–than their current status as mutant stand-ins. YMMV.)

  9. George May 17, 2016

    Thanks again for all of the entertaining podcasts. I really enjoy them.
    I have question that you may take the wrong way and find offensive – I hope you do not.
    So here goes:
    Does the Darwyn Cooke news make you rethink what you do not know when you critique something? The reason I ask this is that I recall you having a very negative view of Slayground. I don’t remember all of the details, but if I recall correctly there was a view that it seemed like Cooke lost interest. We do not know how long Cooke was sick for and if this impacted the quality of his work. As a second question: How do you think about reviewing the trend in quality of someone’s work when you do not know their personal circumstances, and does it matter from a reviewers point of view?

    Sorry if this comes off as an attack. it is very much not meant that way.


  10. Zaragosa May 18, 2016

    Jeff, as someone who shares your feelings on the Howard Stern Show (loves the stream of consciousness tangents and hates the lowest common denominator stuff), I can assure you that you guys have created a similar beast in the realm of comics podcasting… minus the porn stars and butt bongo. Kudos!

  11. What I’ve noticed about my enjoyment of Marvel movies is that with the exception of The Avengers and maybe Ant-Man, every Marvel movie I’ve seen at the theater was a bit of a disappointment, while those I’ve seen at home I enjoyed a lot.

    Which I think makes a lot of sense since. Firstly, most of the directors and writers working on them are TV people or indie people and their approach to movies is the genre TV show (or even comics) kind of serialization, rather than the film one. Secondly, I watch them mostly for the themes and the charismatic way those actors portray their characters, rather than for spectacle or visuals or for the specific story told in that specific time frame.

  12. David Morris May 21, 2016

    Another very enjoyable apple food. Al and Paul turning up triggered my own flashback to meeting ‘Wait, What?’ which was their first cross-over episode with you. I was initially resistant to your charms (which seems somehow suitable for a comics fan ‘Huh! Fan hate stupid difference!’) but then I realised I was being manipulated by a supervillain and….
    Mine’s another vote for the Micronauts read through. There’s something overwrought and overproduced about it as a series that fascinates me. It shares that quality with Amanda Lear’s song ‘Comics’ off her ‘Sweet Revenge’ album that came to mind when you were discussing dinner parties.

  13. Alan Pursell Jun 2, 2016

    In the #TeamGraeme and #TeamJeff civil war, was it all orchestrated by the Writer who’s name dare not be mentioned? Because in my head canon, it is now.