0:01-20:16:  Greetings from Graeme “I’m In A Great Mood!” McMillan and Jeff “I Most Definitely Am Not!” Lester, where we start in with exactly that state of affairs.  Jeff lays out the details and is especially annoyed at some of the comics he’s been reading; Graeme thinks that Jeff will be entertainingly cranky as a result.  Jeff thinks he’s going to just be a crank.  Good(?) News: you will definitely get a chance to decide for yourself with this episode, because Jeff goes all in on the grouchiness.  Warning:  ALL IN.  But first: we talk a bit about the comics backlog pile; Jeff makes the case for Comixology adding a user-customizable smart list function; reception to the first episode of DROKK!, and more.
20:16-26:20: Is Jeff gaining no joy at all from the news that Conan will be a member of the Savage Avengers a sign that he is truly in a bad place?  (Jeff, not Conan, although arguably the latter—especially if you think of the bad place being “Marvel”—is quite likely a more rewarding conversational topic.)  Or is it that David Finch cover? Or is it just the common sense idea that you don’t garnish your salt with salt? Or you never put the Punisher on team?  Or some other option I haven’t listened far enough into the discussion to list out?
26:20-43:46: Remember Jeff joking about Battling About Bendis, the new podcast (that actually turned out to be Drokk)?  Get a bit of taste of that as an embittered Jeff “reviews” Superman #8 and Young Justice #2.  Graeme has a great theory about what’s going on with Jon Kent, but does Mr. Let-It-All-Burn care?  Also discussed: Sex Criminals; DeFalco & Ryan’s Fantastic Four; and more.
43:46-56:39: Jeff tries to apologize and mentions there are other people whose work he also was frustrated by this week but he won’t be shitting on their work…and then GRAEME DEMANDS THE RECEIPTS.  (Look at me trying to blame it on Graeme even now! What a garbage person I am.)  Anyway, discussed: Goddess Mode #3 by Zoe Quinn and Robbi Rodriguez; Wonder Twins #1 by Mark Russell and Stephen Byrne; moving past Tom King and the feedback on Heroes in Crisis; Fantastic Four #1 by Dan Slott and Sara Pichelli.
56:39-1:08:38: Realizing he has unleashed a monster, Graeme tries desperately to pivot:  “Here’s a question,” he asks, fear all but audible, “what have you read this week that you liked?”  Discussed:   Where does optimism end and self-torture begin?; West Side Story; a quick list of stuff Jeff did like; Criminal #2 by Brubaker and Phillips.
1:08:38-1:36:13: Jeff has read the first three issues of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Tempest (which, as Graeme points out, Jeff refers to as Tempest by The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which may or may not add an enlightening “senile and addled” sheen to all that has come before now this ep from Jeff).  Thank goodness, Greg is there to help set him straight!  Discussed: LOEG and the Nemo books, Black Dossier, Century, the ways in which Tempest! feels perhaps like a pivot in a number of ways, extra-temporality, the expectations of a artist’s final work, LOEG: The Tempest vs. Twin Peaks: The Return.
1:36:13-1:43:16: After a super quick visit to our safe space—by which I mean Immortal Hulk #13 by Al Ewing, Joe Bennett Ruy José, Belardino Brabo and Rafael Fonteriz—Jeff goes on to talk about Outer Darkness #4 by John Layman and Afu Chan, and, in a similar Trek-based vein, the USS Callister episode of Black Mirror.
1:43:16-1:55:20: Please dear god, let us hear from Graeme!  He wants to talk about the pilot of Doom Patrol now on DC Universe.  What did he love? What drove him crazy? And what will keep him coming back? Is it lifting from Morrison as opposed to Morrisonian, and what’s the difference? (And what’s better?)
1:55:20-2:22:19: On a super-related topic, Graeme has reread Morrison and Case’s Doom Patrol and feels the run doesn’t hold up. Considering Graeme’s re-read of The Invisibles disappointed him, is Morrison someone whose work doesn’t hold up on a second readthrough?  Graeme thinks not, but has a lot of culprits to attribute to those failures.
2:22:19-2:37:03: Static hits, so we call back, and although you would think we would go right to the closing comments, Jeff has a lot of apologizing to do to Graeme (a lot!), but also we feel we should do a very quick rundown of comics news:  Second Coming not coming from Vertigo anymore; rumors about the number of books in DC’s line and where they might be published are discussed; aging up your avatar; and DC’s beautiful-looking Lucha Explosiva figures.
2:37:03-end:  Closing comments!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Instagram! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr, and  on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.  And then we’re out!
NEXT WEEK:  Skip week? Indeed!  Enjoy the rest of you February and join us for a new Wait, What? in March!

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12 comments on “Wait, What?, Ep. 265: A Mire of Nihilistic Loathing

  1. Jeff Lester Feb 17, 2019

    And if you want just the podcast link for your nefarious cutting and pasting ends:


  2. Mike Murdock Feb 17, 2019

    I was totally going to make the same “When you’re a Jet” comment at the same time. That being said, the “Cool Boy” callback was absolutely wonderful.

    This may be the very best WaitWhat I’ve heard in a while. Crabby Jeff is a great Jeff.

  3. Thomas Williams Feb 18, 2019

    So I would support a Patreon tier that gave us a shitting on Bendis podcast. (It must be called Shitting on Bendis) two issues of Young Justice to get the cliffhanger that it’s the bad guy from the Amethyst comics! $4 for cute dialogue just doesn’t do it for me anymore.

    I’m in agreement with Jeff about Fraction. I thought he wrote some great comics through recap pages and interviews but I never saw those ideas on the page. Bendis can get cool ideas on the page but can’t control himself when the next cool idea happens and it derails the story he was telling. I think in 8 years of New Avengers we saw one plot resolved.

  4. Tomas Syrstad Ruud Feb 19, 2019

    It is possible Marvel may not be worried about reprinting Savage Avengers in the future because the Conan character is moving towards public domain? In Europe it is already out of copyright and a french publisher is doing its own adaptations:


    Also: Dark Jeff is the best new character of 2019.

    • Voord 99 Feb 20, 2019

      My God, you’re right. It’s Speedball becoming Penance all over again.

      More seriously, the end of the podcast genuinely did make me feel bad about how enjoyable it had been to listen to.

      But thanks to our hosts for crystallizing why The Invisibles doesn’t quite work for me. I was not reading comics when it came out, and I suspect that means that I missed the moment and came to it too late. Anyone else in the same category?

      Also, I can’t help but feel that The Invisibles is a comic written by someone who’s read a lot of Pat Mills comics and taken them apart to see how they worked — but who, unlike Pat Mills, isn’t actually sincere about hating the evil bastards who keep people down.

      That’s why its best issue is the one written from the point of view of the soldier that King Mob kills – there’s a humaneness there that’s genuinely impressive. But it’s also why a comic that is admittedly about artifice so frequently feels horribly fake and unconvincing itself. To put it another way, Grant Morrison has an MBE.

      Also, anyone remember “I make electricity dance like Beyoncé” from Final Crisis? I cringed a little at that, I have to say,

      • David M Feb 20, 2019

        I read the start of the Invisibles, but having been a teen in the 70s I really felt this was not my Illuminatus trilogy with added Jerry Cornelius, but one re-packaged for the kids. As a reader I’ve found Morrison’s comics more enjoyable from about the JLA on, when it looked like he was more relaxed about loving this stuff.

  5. Patrick Gaffney Feb 20, 2019

    The comiXology feature I want them (besides the create your own reading list that Jeff mentions) is the create your own subscription. Let me subscribe to Kamandi or Astro City or the original run of Sub-mariner. Pick a title and send me an issue a week of that old title I wish to read but not buy all at once.

  6. Bengt Strand Feb 22, 2019

    Love cranky Jeff. You should hire someone to get him in the right mood before each episode, a patreon stretch goal perhaps. :)

    I have the first trade of The Invisibles, but only ever read the first issue in that because I thought it was terrible. My favourite Morrison is the early parts of Zenith, but I haven’t read it in forever so maybe it wont hold up.

  7. HornybonerF4 Feb 24, 2019

    I LOVED DeFalco’s FF! Nate the time pervert is one of my favorite characters!

  8. To offer my 2 cents, I really liked the way Doom Patrol’s pilot played with time. Maybe it says more about me than the show but I find the idea that of depressed immortals spending 30 years in their bedrooms hardly getting to know their roommates relatable.

    • Flasshe Feb 26, 2019

      That’s really the only way to explain it. Jane has been at the house (off and on) longer than Cliff, who’s been there since the 80s, but yet now in 2019 is the first time they’ve met? Yeah, they must really be isolating themselves…

      I think they could’ve thrown in another line or two of dialog to clarify things.