0:00-2:01:14: Greetings! We are talking face-to-face in Portland after eating at the very delicious Farmhouse in San Francisco. Jeff, despite what Graeme insists, is not drunk. (Just a little tipsy.) So in in the interest of getting this episode up without any more delay, I’m going to take a pass on the regular show notes, and just tell you:
This podcast is just a little over two hours, which is pretty amazing because we’d hung out all day talking and figured we’d have maybe 45 minutes left in us, tops;
Jeff is not drunk;
and a quick pile of topics discussed: how we attend cons; some of the stuff Jeff bought at Cosmic Monkey before the show; Bill Mantlo’s Micronauts; print vs. digital; Tom King’s interview on the Slate working podcast; Mister Miracle #2; Mark Gruenwald’s Squadron Supreme; our ongoing obsession with Defenders; the new Captain Phasma comic; Jaws on the big screen, and more!
And that’s it! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr, and on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
TWO WEEKS FROM NOW: Baxter Building A.B. (after Byrne). Issues #296-302! Read ’em and weep (with us)!
0:00-3:38: Greetings! And welcome to episode 200, where our long-term special guest star, Technical Difficulties, almost dropped by for an opening visit. Those of you who’ve heard our early episodes recently might enjoy listening to Graeme and Jef try to reminisce about their early days when they can barely remember them.
3:38-33:29: And then it’s on to a discussion about Captain America: Civil War the movie that somehow both Graeme and Jeff saw during its first week of release. Jeff liked it, Graeme didn’t, and so we’re off to the races! FULL SPOILERS AHOY, so please do be careful if you haven’t seen it yet. (Because otherwise you might end up like Graeme, as this conversation will make clear.) Discussed: Batman vs. Stupidman; reasons why you might not thoroughly spoil a movie for yourself before you see it; Robert Downey Jr.’s performance in CA: Civil War; Tom Holland as Peter Parker/Spider-Man; Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa/Black Panther; the overstuffed nature of Marvel films; Emily VanCamp as Sharon Carter; J.Law vs. J.Gar vs. J.Lo vs. J.League; Joss Whedon, J.J. Abrams, and how the works at the front of the nerd zeitgeist age over time; good movies vs. good Marvel movies; the action sequences in CA: Civil War; John Wick and the legacy of Hong Kong movies; different special effect houses; Graeme shit-talking CA: Civil War in emails or not; and then…SPECIAL GUEST APPEARANCE BY ERNIE AND GUS-GUS! YAYYYYYY! (It’s like they knew it was our 200th episode!) (And yet Graeme swears to me he didn’t tell them.)
33:29-39:41: “Yes, yes,” you’re saying. “I suppose I have enjoyed all two hundred or so episodes of Wait, What? But I do wish they had more cheesy tie-in discussions to big movie events that one of them doesn’t even like…” Well, face front, true believer, because we’ve organized the Wait, What? Civil War 200th Episode Event where each of us picked a team of five comic book characters to fight for us! Who will win? #TeamGraeme, who assembled two separate teams, or #TeamJeff, which assembled a team with *six* comic book characters? (Maybe a more important question is, why can’t these guys follow their own rules?) Discussed: Wildfire from the Legion of Superheroes; erotic Sears bedsheets; Dave Cockrum and the secret word of the podcast, which when uttered leads to….
39:41-53:32: As you probably know, Darwyn Cooke passed away the day we recorded this podcast, not long after it was announced he’d been fighting cancer. Although Jeff thought we’d talk about Cooke and his legacy at the end of the episode, and Graeme was surprised we didn’t discuss it at the beginning, here we are talking about it now.
53:32-55:03: And so with that we’re back to our discussion of the Wait, What? Civil War Teams, this time picking up with #TeamJeff and the second team for #TeamGraeme. And then it’s time for: CALLS FROM LISTENERS. In order to make it easier on my tippy-tappy little fingers, and also in order to provide you with a modicum of suspense, I will not transcribe the whole call but rather than provide you with a meaningful excerpt as provided by Google Voice’s auto-transcription feature, which as you can imagine is absolutely 100% accurate, for example:
55:03-1:02:57: Here’s Zack: “Gradulations on 202 question any crap man. You know so if there’s anything more we can do to make them to is interesting and failing that and if there’s anything they can do to make expensive and less paranoid. Thanks gradulations.” Discussed: X-Men fans, what makes the Inhumans interesting, and more.
1:02:57-1:05:13: Here’s Aaron (lickthestar) from Detroit: “I remember the first time I came across your podcast kind of by chance after you getting back into comments after a long hiatus and I listen to you guys for an hour and a half rip apart on my favorite marvel comics and tell me what a horrible writer, pinnacle been disses […]” Discussed: we are terrible human beings, Ernie and Gus-Gus have opinions; and more.
1:05:13-1:30:19: Here’s Paul McCall (parts 1 and 2): “Hello, my name is Paul mcAll and I’m a comic book attic and superhero Chunky […] I have not yet hurt. I know you both drunk or some kind of clear view website, but I want details.” Discussed: DC’s 80 page and 100 page giants; when one becomes a Whatnaut; how the two of us met; writing the Onomatopoeia newsletter for Comix Experience; how we ended up doing the podcast; influences on the podcast (for Jeff, anyway);
1:30:19-1:33:11: Here’s Steve from Los Angeles: “you guys are just f****** fantastic, and I will also say that the first time I listen to the show. I absolutely hated it, and I think I first turned in on some episode where there was a lengthy discussion of the waffle window and various. You know walkal related topics, and I was like what the f*** is this […]” Discussed: our secret ingredient.
1:33:11-1:34:32: Welcome, Peter from Atlanta: “‘I’ve been a listener for about a year now, and I really enjoyed how much you guys just kind of break-ins it just feels like me and my friend alright conversations. I’ve had with friends and bars where it goes you start one place, and you end up of millions of miles away from where you are and so it’s on a few my hair thing about the show.[…]” Discussed: THE TANGENTS
1:34:32-1:41:37: And here’s Special Guest-Star Voodoo Ben!: “I‘ve loved every minute of it to get to a classic wait what conundrum? I was wondering if you guys would consider. What if Jack Kirby’s post Marvel work on that community before as well this address.” Discussed: What waffles Jack Kirby’s DC work would be if Jack Kirby’s DC work (and some of his Pacific Comics work) were waffles.
1:41:37-1:43:09: Leef Smith of Mission Comics and Art: “I went back in I’ve actually listening to some of the first episodes this week, and it’s amazing how consistent you guys are alright.” (Leef has the diction that Google Voice apparently loves because this auto-transcribed excerpt is very, very close to what he actually said. IMPRESSIVE!) Discussed (all too briefly): Mission Comics and Art is a fantastic comic store in San Francisco and you should go for a visit if you haven’t already.
1:43:09-1:44:42: Levi Tompkins is here to say, among other things: “I love you guys is rambling but they just thought well. I think they’re informative. I think they’re making me the email love comics, but also sometimes heat them[…]” Discussed: victory via SCOIP; Jeff being unfair to Graeme, and the snarkiest intro Jeff has ever made.
1:44:42-1:47:57: Matt Terl! (Who really is one of our favorite people, and we had to badger him into calling): “I figured I would do go up one of the old emails. I had sent you guys with a question that I want to point out you never ever answered posted to you know see if maybe you would take the time to answer it the question is this is from june 2012.” Discussed: no, really, Matt, we love you; the JMS law; and more.
1:47:57-1:49:51: David Morris from Bristol calling: “David Morris calling from Bristol thanking you for 200 Apple Foods looking forward to more[…]” Discussed: David’s brilliant Wait, What parable.
1:49:51-1:51:01: And here’s Martin Gray [inaccurate transcript unavailable] who took time out for the excellent work he does over at Too Busy For A Girl to leave us a message. Thank you Martin!
1:51:01-1:59:41: And, similarly, here’s another delightful-but-impossible-to-distort-via-Google-Voice’s-autotranscription call, this time from Daniel McKay asking: if we could have a fantasy dinner party with anyone from comics, who would you invite and why? Discussed: Ryan North, Gil Kane, Alan Moore, Olive Byrne, and Jill Lepore’s The Secret History of Wonder Woman, why there’s a transcription of an orgy, Clark Kent, Alec McGarrity, Kid Eternity, Wallace Wells, Diabolik, the best version of Clue, and more.
1:59:41-2:08:15: We are also lucky enough to get a message from Al Kennedy and Paul O’Brien of the brilliant House to Astonish! And they ask: “how do you see the comics landscape and your work in comics podcasting having changed since you started?” Discussed: Uh, exactly that, although Graeme comes up with much more well thought out points about the topic than Jeff. (Sooooo much more thought out!) But also: Bill Mantlo! Patreon! and more!
2:08:15-2:12:23: And finally from Jay Edidin of Jay and Miles X-plain The X-Men: “As you look back over the first two hundred episodes, what do you want to revisit, and what are you looking forward to leaving in the dust?” Discussed: Nashville, Jane The Virgin, and more.
2:12:23-2:16:27: “Oh, but what about those listener questions?” you ask (which is itself a listener question, if you think about it). Jeff was such a space cadet he didn’t think we got any but Graeme, fortunately, knows better. However, there’s no way we’re going to be able to answer them this go-round so, episode 301, which will be the episode after next week’s Baxter Building episode, will tackle all those questions…and any more you want to send to !
2:16:27-end: Closing Comments! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr (where Graeme posted a really fantastic little Spider-Man story by Hannah Blumenreich. If you haven’t seen it already, you should check it out)!
Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 125 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK: It’s Baxter Building, Ep. 18! Read Fantastic Four issues #134-146 with us!
Whew, what a quickly spinning world we live on. As I write this, it was exactly a week ago that Edi and I touched down in Portland, Oregon for a whirlwind visit that, once again, had me missing Rose City Comic-Con by thisssss much. And now here I am typing up the notes for the second in-the-flesh Wait, What? podcast. 185 episodes, and only two of which were recorded with the participants in the same room? Verily, this is the Mighty Wait, What? Age of Hikikomori, True Believer! (Sorry, I’ve been reading too many Roy Thomas introductions recently.)
Without further ado…let’s do, shall we?
00:00-08:41: Greetings from Graeme “On The Street Where You Live” McMillan and Jeff “The Call Is Coming From Inside the House” Lester who dare you to figure out the strange secret of this episode’s recording! [Hint: we recorded it live in the same space, which is why it sounds so different.] [Spoiler: that was really more of a spoiler than a hint.] [Addendum: And that was really more of a hint than a spoiler.] [Postscript: That was actually an addendum, though.] Once again, we are recording live but this time there is no professional microphone to help us, just two men hunched around a single laptop, so we apologize for the slightly less great sound. But for now, settle in and relax as we try out introductions, Graeme tells a story from the recent Rose City Comic-Con, we try to determine how many people hate Graeme, and more.
teeny image!
08:41-25:43: For example, here’s a story about the two of us shopping at Cloud Nine Comics in Portland, Oregon, where one of us was the very model of restraint, and the other one of us was Jeff. Mentioned: Steve “The Stinker” Englehart; whether or not Englehart is still in Oakland, California; whether to eat the brain or the liver; sitting adjacent to Chris Claremont; Englehart’s Coyote and the last cover thereto; meeting pros at cons (wait…is that deliberate?), Graeme’s amazing and entirely accidental pantomime; the ideal price for back issues; Jeff’s visit to Cosmic Monkey Comics; comic t-shirts we have worn and are wearing including these amazingbeauties; and more.
25:43-48:02: Talking about Cosmic Monkey conjures memories for both Graeme and Jeff of Comic Relief in Berkeley, which leads us down the primrose path of memory about how intimidating it was for us to shop in Comic Relief in Berkeley and Comix Experience in San Francisco; being slagged off by comic store clerks; being slagged off by comic store customers; and then back to talking about all the comic book stores in Portland and San Francisco, and what it’s like to live in a city with only one comic book store; which one of us had a “quitting comics” phase and which one didn’t; how living close to a comic book store can help you transcend superhero comics; and more.
Wait, Watch?
48:02-1:10:51: “Hey, why don’t you talk about your Steven Englehart comics?” Graeme asks, so of course we talk about the announcement of Ta-Nehisi Coates writing Black Panther for Marvel. We also talk about the less-covered news of Frank Tieri writing The Black Knight (and Catwoman!); who’s more important to DC, what’s-her-name or what’s-his-name; the news from DC, including the cancellation of Doomed, the un-cancellation of Omega Men, and whether or not the Internet has as much faith in DC as DC has in the Internet. Also discussed: the first issue of Omega Men and whether or not it needed to be more clear; the first issue of Watchmen; the mastery of Dave Gibbons; and more.
1:10:51-1:22:29: Comics we’ve read recently! Sure, we can talk about those! But first let’s talk about reading said comics on the Kindle, because Jeff bought Graeme a copy of the Skull the Slayer collection for the Kindle and Graeme had….problems. Is the Kindle really a digital comic book platform at all? And what did Graeme think of Skull The Slayer? Also discussed is the Kindle version of Super-Villains Unite, Marvel’s collection of the old issues of Super-Villain Team-Up.
It sounds like a weird braggy innuendo, doesn’t it?
1:22:29-1:41:34: In fact, here’s Jeff discussing those very same issues of Super-Villain Team-Up! Learn what you’re (probably not) missing from Victor Loves Namor, the romance comic about two characters who can’t stand each other, as written and drawn by creators who can’t stand them, either. Also discussed: Jim Shooter as writer and artist; Steve Englehart and the guest-star to end all guest-stars; the secret connection between Dr. Doom and Batman; Reed Richards eating his own hair; the crossover that points to a coup; the coup that leads to a new President of Ecuador; and more.
1:41:34-1:52:45: Graeme has read Klang!: A Writer’s Commentary by Priest about the making of Q2: The Return of Quantum and Woody from Valiant. Discussed: Bill Cosby and Mark Waid; transgender in the scripts but cis gendered in the art; dropped plotlines and characters; gossip and process; unreliable narrators; Power Man and Iron Fist, and more.
1:52:45-end: Graeme also quickly mentions the 2000 A.D. jumping-on issue (Prog 1950) that he read and reviewed here on the site, and then is kind enough to lead us into… Closing comments! Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr! And, of course, on Patreon where, as of this count, 109 patrons make this whole thing possible!
Since WordPress isn’t automatically converting all links into the audioplayer, we’re going to leave the first comment to you and allow anyone who needs to to cut and paste from directly below:
Last week, I talked about the first three issues of Skull The Slayer by Marv Wolfman and Steve Gan about a Vietnam vet and three civilians transported, via the Bermuda Triangle, to a distant past jammed with…
Yup, here we are with another two hour episode! Somehow we managed to squeeze in right after Image Expo and right before SDCC, which I personally think is appropriate.
Anyway, yes: Grab the episode! Read the show notes! Trade with friends!
00:00-15:24: Salutations! Once again, Graeme is hiding from the heat in his basement (and by “the heat,” we don’t mean “the legal authorities,” we mean, you know, temperature and stuff) while Jeff is more than happy to gloat about the amazingly mild weather in San Francisco. Also discussed: movies and shows that make it a point to destroy San Francisco; what kind of earnings might we expect from Magic Mike XXL and will Channing Tatum see RDJ money; how Magic Mike XXL will win the holiday weekend (it didn’t); if Channing Tatum will become the next Will Smith (he didn’t); Graeme’s super-crazy week of preparation for San Diego Comic Con; and more.
15:24-38:19: Speaking of San Diego Comic Con, right around the time of recording this episode, the City of San Diego announced Comic Con would be there through 2018, a two year extension. Graeme and Jeff talk about that, then swap stories about what’s happened at previous Nerd Viet Nams, and what surprises it might hold for Graeme this year; Graeme’s confusion about the Fourth of July; our last attempt to podcast during SDCC; San Francisco being without a comic book convention; Graeme not-so-discreetly trying to get Portland to bully in on SF’s possible future; and more comics precursor conversation.
38:19-56:37: And so we finally get to…no, sorry, no comics conversation yet, we’re afraid. Instead Graeme has some thoughts about the first season of Fargo. Jeff hasn’t seen it, but he has seen Twin Peaks so when Graeme tries to talk about BOB on Twin Peaks being a cop-out (especially compared to Fargo), Jeff has some choice words. CHOICE. WORDS. And I thought about trying to balance the Twin Peaks clip above with a Fargo one below, but I wasn’t sure how spoilery they might ended up being. They had one clip on YouTube with Billy Bob Thornton pulling a kind of modified Takeshi Kitano gun fight thing that I liked, but there was a credit sequence at the end for some reason that went on wayyyyy too long. So I went with this bundle of show trailers:
56:37-1:06:34: Wait, when are they going to talk comics? Now….after a fashion. Which is to say, we talk about the All-New, All-Different Marvel announcements now that they’re finally out. Oh sure, Al Ewing has three books and Tom Taylor has one, which is good news but weren’t the announcements kind of…blah? Where is Jessica Jones? A solo queer lead? Where is fucking RED WOLF, a character shown in the ads?
1:06:34-1:10:28: Quick segue: Graeme read Action Comics #42 by Greg Pak and Aaron Kuder and really liked it. And Graeme’s description sounds pretty great. And then after that, we talk about Omega Men #2 by Tom King and Barnaby Bagenda and some of the formal playfulness therein.
1:10:28-1:18:18: Which is why Graeme thinks if any of the All-New, All-Different Marvel books are going to be the next Hawkeye, it’s probably going to be The Vision by Tom King and Gabriel Hernandez Walta. And we’re back to discussing the other announcements, and Marvel’s different publishing pushes, and writers who have stepped away from writing Marvel titles, Kaare Andrews not being allowed in the Marvel offices; and more.
(Sorry; could not find a bigger version…)
1:18:18-1:46:16: And because that Kaare Andrews story came out of the Image Expo, it’s a fine time to pivot and talk about the Expo 2015. In the past, we’ve been underwhelmed by Expo announcements but we thought this was a pretty good year! Among the topics discussed: Bryan Lee O’Malley (!!) writing a regular ongoing; Brian K. Vaughn and what Jeff sees as an ongoing attempt to calibrate against Robert Kirkman; the return of Warren Ellis and Tula Lotay; Sunset Park and Slave Punk, both by Ronald Wimberly, and much, much more, along with an ongoing contrast of the announcements from Marvel and DC (is it just us, or do the X-Men plans look kinda super-weird?). Join us for a huge bowl of first impressions, idle guesses, rampant speculation, and anticipatory glee!
1:46:16-1:57:12: At some point, I decided to mark off another segment, since it’s arguable we run from the subject of new book announcements and have moved directly to talking about stuff we’ve read on the Internet, like Jeff Lemire being challenged to live up to adjectives, or a super-long “discussion” between John Byrne and Dan Slott that, depending on your age and/or outlook on life, will either depress you about the state of John Byrne or give you some hope about the state of Dan Slott.
1:57:12-2:03:49: It’s almost the end of the show! Graeme has read a chunk of the original Micronauts by Bill Mantlo and Pat Broderick and it’s very game and very, very shameless. He’s also read the last few issues of Steve Englehart’s West Coast Avengers, which are fascinating in the set-up for the new status quo, and then how the run gets wrapped up by Tom DeFalco and Ralph Macchio. Also included: the secret Simpsons reference Graeme didn’t get; more closure with Hank Pym.
2:03:49-end: Opening comments! I mean: closing comments! Gravity’s Totebag! Places to look for us at—Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Tumblr )! And, of course, on Patreon where, as of this count, 106 patrons make this whole thing possible.
Remember: next week—skip week! The week after that: Baxter Building Ep. 7, featuring issues #61-67 of the Fantastic Four by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee! And then Wait, What, Ep. 181 right after that!
Also: if you want just a link to the podcast to copy and paste for your own nefarious ends, check out the very first comment to this post. If you’re going to SDCC, have a great convention: we’ll be here when you get back!
http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat162.mp3 First things first! Those of you who just want the direct link to the podcast for copying and then pasting for downloading however you choose, PLEASE SEE THE FIRST COMMENT . (So, technically, it’s…last…
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