Hello, friends! Skipping our way back after skip week, it is the Wait, What? Podcast, with much talk about comics and comics news for you. As per our discussion in the comments of our previous show notes, there are some time annotations in the show notes below in order to help you skip spoilers you do not want to spoil you…but be forewarned I put most of them down guessing the intro would add a minute to the time and it was only a mere fifty-six seconds. I adjusted things accordingly for the Silencer spoiler but everything else might hit four or five seconds sooner than indicated? It’s not perfect, but on the other hand I might have this wrapped three fewer hours than when I used to do full show notes.
So, with that in mind, on with the show!
Topics discussed:
The Salt-N-Pepa Pedanticism Hour (fortunately not a full hour);
A lot of moving parts to the comics news: first up, the announced discount for Comixology Unlimited; the aftermath of Marvel’s latest absurd Amazon sale; the joys of Hoopla; the sumptuous art of Milk Wars: Doom Patrol/Justice League of America by Gerard Way, Steve Orlando, the amazing ACO, (with a backup strip by Magdalene Visaggio and Sonny Liew) (with story spoilers right around the 45 minute mark to around the 47 minute mark or so); Metal #5 by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo (pretty much the whole conversation is a spoiler, I guess? To the extent we even understand what’s going on, which is part of the problem? So I guess starting around the 48 minute mark to right around one hour and three if you want to skip the majority of the convo?) Also discussed: Bendis’s plans for Superman and DC, the Scott Snyder weekly JLA event, and some understandably nervous retailers.
1:15:10 (or so): We talk about the news of Dan Mintz’s DMG Group buying Valiant and the absolutely delightful typo that resulted in the reportage of that news (h/t Seth Rosenblatt), but then quickly return to our patented W,W? hand-wringing over possible DC/Marvel gamesmanship in Summer 2018 right when the market literally can’t afford it.
1:29:00 (or so): A *very* quick discussion about Ethan Van Sciver’s harassment of Darryl Ayo and the difficulty of nailing down an objective history of something happening 100% on social media;
1:39:05: Moving into talking about comics we’ve read: Graeme has good things to say about Motherlands #1 by Si Spurrier, Jung Gi Kim, Eric Canete, and Rachel Stott; Jeff mentions West Coast Avengers: Zodiac Attack by Steve Englehart, Al Milgrom, and Joe Sinnott (but really doesn’t talk about how good it is—people, it’s really good); Silencer #1 by John Romita Jr. and Dan Abnett (with what Graeme points out is probably a significant spoiler mentioned at 1:53:52 to 1:54:08) and contrasted with Jennifer Blood, as well as the first issues of Abbott #1 by Saladin Ahmed and Sami Kivela, and Black Dahlias #0 by Kristin Schwarz, Shad Clark, and Ari Syahrazad. But, Jeff also read vols 1, 2, and 5 of Duet of Beautiful Goddesses by Yumi Hanakoji, so why should we listen to him, if you think about it?
2:03:05-end: Closing comments that very quickly go off the rails because we talk about the continuity of John Byrne’s Superman and how much control a creator should have; and then back to closing comments, and then we are back off the rails a few more times.
Hey there, friends. The government may have shut down but not your friendly neighborhood Wait, What? Yes, we have a terrifyingly-close-to-two-and-a-half-hour installment for you!
Topics discussed:
How many people we follow on Twitter(!);
Comics news round-up featuring: the return of the red trunks; Bendis in Action Comics #1000; Dan Slott leaving Spider-Man to take over Iron Man; Kelly Thompson is now Marvel Exclusive; and, as Graeme perfectly puts it, “Wolverine is back, in the most fucking confusing manner ever!”
The gap between Marvel’s sales and Marvel’s talent: Thompson on Hawkeye; Zdarsky on Spectacular Spider-Man; Al Ewing’s Ultimates and Ultimates2 (with Kenneth Rocafort, Aud Koch, Travel Foreman);
Jeff’s thoughts on Batman #39, and a discussion about Tom King and Mister Miracle and DC’s non-Kirby handling of The New Gods overall and a discussion of continuity and character investment as opposed to an investment on a creator’s “take” on a character, which leads in its way to:
discussions of American Vandal and the Netflix adaptation of Charles Forsman’s TEOTFW, and
a *very* long—and absolutely spoiler-rich—discussion about Star Wars: The Last Jedi.
Back to news (kinda): a discussion of Marvel’s new publisher;
An all-too-brief discussion of the genius Bob Haney, George Tuska, and Vince Colletta story “Will of the Whisperer” from Worlds Finest #252, available on Comixology;
If you like (or don’t mind) reading comics electronically, see if your library has the Hoopla service, so you can check out and read The Bronze Age Batman Brave and the Bold OmnibusVol. 1 *for free*;
Closing comments! Featuring Graeme’s great recap of Justice League of America #123 over at the most excellent Steve Morris’s Shelf Dust; Jeff’s not-so-great job of his half of the closing comments; and a call for you to VOTE!
Whew!
Next week is a skip week but join us in a mere fortnight for Wait, What? Ep. 242, won’t you?
Here’s episode two hundred and thirty-nine for your yuletide ears! Due to some tech problems, the episode ran short (and turned out to be even shorter once you cut out the “Hello, Graeme, hello?” “Jeff?” “Graeme?” “Hello?” joshery). Nevertheless, it is our hope we will scratch that hard-to-reach comic book podcast itch.
Topics discussed in today’s episode:
Our statement about the upcoming changes to Patreon’s fee structure;
*Jeff’s epitaph;
*An annotated readthrough of the lead story of World’s Finest #251, “Invasion of the Deathless Brain,” by Bob Haney, George Tuska, and Vince Colletta (oh, and good catch by Walter! Here’s that amazing fan-drawn facial hair on Speedy below);
*The roundtable by Matt and Graeme about Justice League #34 by Priest and Pete Woods, and Batman #36 by Tom King, Clay and Seth Mann, with some additional commentary here by Jeff;
*But Jeff also read and wanted to talk about three kinda recent first issues: John Wick #1 by Greg Pak, Giovanni Valletta, David Curiel and Inlight Studios; Fence #1 by C.S. Pascat, Johanna The Mad, Joana LaFuente; Ninja-K #1 by Christos Gage, Tomás Giorello, and Diego Rodriguez; and the (not a first issue by super-excellent) Rock Candy Mountain #6 by Kyle Starks, Chris Schweizer, and Dylan Todd. Also: *The 2000AD 2017 Christmas Special;
*Be Pure! Be Vigilant! Behave! 2000AD and Judge Dredd: The Secret History… by Pat Mills;
*The 2000AD Sale currently on their website (update: and thanks to editing this episode, Jeff now also has a digital copy of the Complete Harlem Heroes);
and more!
We will return in two weeks for the last Baxter Building of the year! Read Fantastic Four #s 322-327 and come join us!
Hello, wonderful Whatnauts! If you’ve been paying attention, you know that we are scheduled for a Baxter Building this weekend.
And! I am happy to say you will indeed be getting a healthy dose of Jeff & Graeme in awe of what Steve Englehart is doing to the Fantastic Four.
But! Considering how crazy the comics news has been the last few weeks, and considering Marvel announced a new Editor in Chief just two days ago, we thought it might be a good idea to convene a quick 2017 check-in with what happened, what will happen next, and classic ’70s TV show, What’s Happening!! (Sadly, I’m only joking about that last one…for now.)
So! Join in on the bemusement with this episode: it’s barely over an hour but still chock full of the quality bemusement you expect from us!
His name is Rio! And he dances on the sand! My name is Jeff! I was not a fan of the meme!
Together, we are here to finish what we started, which is answering the questions of the beautiful benighted souls on Patreon!
First up is Tim Rifenburg:
Hey Guys,
Thanks for doing the question thing again.
Question 1: Is there any character / company crossover you would like to see and who would write and draw it?
Question 2: Are you ever sorry you started the FF read through? I enjoy listening to your thoughts but you sometimes seem like you are struggling through the books.
Then there’s Ethan Johnson:
There are two variations, I don’t care which one you answer.
Marvel buys DC and moves existing Marvel creative teams intact to take over DC properties. Pair creative teams with books. I’ll allow recent iconic teams, because if you don’t put Hickman & Opeña on LSH, you’re crazypants.
Same scenario, but no DC. Just shuffle existing intactcreative teams onto other properties, like when Byrne & Mantlo swapped Alpha Flight & Hulk!
(Psst! Because Jeff was so proud of his list, he insisted on including it here:)
Okay. Hickman and Opena on LSH. Sure. But honestly I think a better take would be Gillen & McKelvie?
And, then, uh, in no particular order, other than how I think of ‘em:
Al Ewing and Barry Kitson on JLA;
Al Ewing and Elsa Charretier on The Flash;
Al Ewing and John Cassaday on Forever People;
Dan Slott turned Spider-Man into Batman; maybe if he wrote Batman, he’d turn him into Spider-Man? No, just kidding: I’d give Dan Slott and Sanford Greene Angel & The Ape. (Maybe Slott could have Batman, Inc?)
Chip Zdarsky and Leonardo Romero doing Ambush Bug: Year Done;
Ta-Nehisi Coates and Brian Steelfreeze doing Superman (I should probably say Wonder Woman and then they can just lightly rewrite their issues?);
And I guess Mark Waid and Chris Samnee on Action?
Jason Aaron and Goran Parlov doing Jonah Hex as one title, Batman as the other (I guess I was kidding about Dan Slott?)
Bendis doing Green Lantern (with Mike Deodato?), Aquaman (or maybe that’s Mike Deodato?), Green Arrow & Black Canary (with Dave Marquez), and Teen Titans (with Mark Bagley)
Ryan North and Erica Henderson get the coveted The Brave & The Bold treatment
Greg Pak and Chris Samnee/Stuart Immonen could take Wonder Woman?
Felipe Smith writing and drawing Vibe;
G. Willow Wilson and Tradd Moore on Teen Titans;
Jeff Lemire and Greg Smallwood on The Rose & The Thorn;
Ryan North (again!) and Gurihuru on Lois Lane;
Becky Cloonan and Olivier Coipel on Nightwing;
David Walker and Robbi Rodriguez on Batman and the Outsiders;
Tom Taylor and Phil Noto on Catwoman;
Nick Spencer and Jesus Saiz on Freedom Fighters;
Chris Hastings and Daniel Acuna on Metal Men;
Mark Waid And Humberto Ramos on Impulse;
Roxane Gay and Jackson “Butch” Guice on Suicide Squad;
Jason Aaron and Alex Maleev on John Constantine;
Matthew Rosenberg and Joe Quinones on Harley Quinn;
Gerry Dugan and Jim Cheung on Secret Six;
Jeff Lemire and Mike DelMundo on The Question;
Jason Aaron and Chris Bachalo on Thriller.
Thomas Williams is curious:
The past two years during either SDCC or NYCC, Valiant do a huge sale and I end up buying the entire past year of back issues and binging them. I always find that the comics are just great with solid story, characters and art. However once this sale is over I am back to forgetting these books in my weekly purchases. What can Valiant do to get people like me to remember them throughout the year?
Also Graeme, of VanLente’s Archer and Armstrong and Timewalker which do you prefer?
Evan Cass wants to know:
Are there artists that you used to adore aesthetically that you can’t stand anymore due to those same aesthetics? Two of my favorite artists as a teen were Art Adams & Ron Lim; I loved their work. Now as a 40something their work literally upsets my stomach; it repulses me. I’m curious if you’ve experienced similar with any former favorites, and why you think that might be. Thanks for the show.
Here comes good ol’ Badger Mushroom:
You asked your Patreon patrons (of which I am one) for questions to waffle about. So here’s one: what do you two think of the recent purchase of The Beat by Lion Forge? Any implications for comics journalism?
(I should note that I have great respect for Heidi MacDonald and the staff of The Beat. I just want to hear the experts weigh in. ;) )
Thanks to you both for an entertaining and informative podcast, and thanks to Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, for bestowing her mercy on us all.
Brendan O’Hare has all the best questions!
For Jeff: Who did you wife/husband up on Stardew Valley?
For Graeme and Jeff: I know Jeff recently parted ways with most of his comic book collection, but are either of you still going through back issue bins to fill in a run? If so, which ones?
And finally, here’s our pal Roger Winston:
I totally missed submitting a question for the Q&A podcast, but I see you are extending it to a second episode. I know you are already full of questions, but here’s mine just in case you need another:
Background:
I sold off the bulk of my collection (~22k books) several years ago and stopped reading. But a few years after that, I discovered digital and got back in (mostly thanks to my iPad and Locke & Key). Now I am totally addicted to Comixology (and to a lesser extent, Marvel Unlimited) and spend way too much money there, buying a lot of books, most of which I will probably never read. I think I felt a need to replace my print collection with digital. At least it takes up less space.
Question 1:
Do you ever think there will come a time when we will lose the rights to the comics we have bought digitally? I don’t think I ever read the Comixology terms of condition, out of fear. But I worry about them going out of business or changing their model or dropping publishers or whatever. Although them being owned by Amazon does make me feel more secure. I have downloaded DRM-free whatever I can for backups, but that is limited to some indie publishers (mostly Image in my case) -Marvel & DC don’t allow that. So was I stupid to have sank so much money (most of it during sales, luckily) into something that could potentially go away before I have a chance to enjoy it? Oh, the hazards of being an obsessive collector, even when there’s no physical component.
Question 2:
Do you think DC will ever come out with a DC Unlimited type service? The bulk of the digital comics I have bought are DC. On one hand, I would love this, because then I could stop buying back issues. (I’ve bought very few Marvels since subscribing to MU.) OTOH, I would hate this because it means I spent a lot on things I could then read a lot cheaper. I have heard some suggestions that DC’s new TV streaming service might include a comics unlimited type service as well, which does make a certain amount of sense.
And that’s that! Again, our thanks to all of you for tuning in, and a super big thanks for those of you on Patreon for you generosity!
Join us next week for a Baxter Building! Issues #314-324 of The Fantastic Four!
Hey, everyone! Show notes are so short as to be little more than an intro to the episode, and on top of that I wanted to give you the same warning I gave at the beginning of the episode (albeit a little more coherent)—Graeme and I have made it a point since the election to make this podcast much less about the politics and much more about the comics, because we know a lot of people who would prefer/need a place they can escape to and not have to deal with all of that. However, in this episode, because I’ve had a lot of my plate and on my mind, that unspoken agreement gets breached in a pretty big way. For a good chunk of the episode, we talk about empathy, Nazis, communication, and whether or not fictional narratives mostly help create empathy, or reinforce solipsism. (not that I was smart enough to put it like that at the time, damn it!)
I mean, don’t worry, we also discuss Marvel Legacy #1, Harley Quinn: A Celebration of 25 Years, the movie IT and the novel The Stand, Audobon, On The Wings of the World by Fabien Grolleau and Jérémie Royer, Rocket #5 by Al Ewing and Adam Gorham, Kamandi Challenge #9 by Tom King and Kevin Eastman and Freddie Williams II, and much, much more.
Like I say at the end of the episode, I’m sure when we reconvene (in two weeks!), I will be back to babbling about Hookjaw, but this episode…not nearly as much. Forewarned is four-armed, as the Tharks used to say. And nonetheless, we hope you enjoy the episode.
NEXT WEEK: NYCC for Graeme! Some relaxing maze books for Jeff! Join us in two weeks for another Wait, What?
0:00-2:01:14: Greetings! We are talking face-to-face in Portland after eating at the very delicious Farmhouse in San Francisco. Jeff, despite what Graeme insists, is not drunk. (Just a little tipsy.) So in in the interest of getting this episode up without any more delay, I’m going to take a pass on the regular show notes, and just tell you:
This podcast is just a little over two hours, which is pretty amazing because we’d hung out all day talking and figured we’d have maybe 45 minutes left in us, tops;
Jeff is not drunk;
and a quick pile of topics discussed: how we attend cons; some of the stuff Jeff bought at Cosmic Monkey before the show; Bill Mantlo’s Micronauts; print vs. digital; Tom King’s interview on the Slate working podcast; Mister Miracle #2; Mark Gruenwald’s Squadron Supreme; our ongoing obsession with Defenders; the new Captain Phasma comic; Jaws on the big screen, and more!
And that’s it! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr, and on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
TWO WEEKS FROM NOW: Baxter Building A.B. (after Byrne). Issues #296-302! Read ’em and weep (with us)!
0:00-10:43: Greetings! For the third time or so?! A lot of problems we talk about briefly and then move right into the horrifying heat wave that moved through San Francisco, Graeme’s sympathy (or lack thereof), Jeff’s grumpiness (and hyper-abundance thereof), and more.
10:43-39:49: But let’s move on to comic book-related stuff, if your definition of such things is generous enough to include the Imax screenings of The Inhumans and even more carping about The Defenders TV show. (Yes, really!)
39:49-59:53: Moving from that and the reaction to our Star Brand readthrough, Jeff wants to wax rhapsodic about the sublime My Pretty Vampire by Katie Skelly, and the absurd Werewolf by Night Omnibus by Gerry Conway and Mike Ploog (at least at the point Jeff is at, anyway). But perhaps by discussing the two subjects too closely together, Jeff runs the risk of sounding like he’s doing the whole “these indy creators are terrific, but think how great they could be if only they were toiling away with no rights for corporate owned IP!” (Which is not where he meant to go with that, at all.) Also discussed: Dastardly & Muttley #1, the end of Secret Empire, and the very delightful Spider-Gwen #23 by Hannah Blumenreich and Jordan Gibson.
59:53-1:26:41: Speaking of idiosyncratic Marvel titles, Graeme, the recommendation of Jeff and others, went and checked out the most recent issues of The Unbelievable Gwenpool by Christopher Hastings and Gurihiru. And he’s got some questions for Jeff, first and foremost is: “why do you like this?” Ulp. Also discussed: Gwenpool, Animal Man, The Punisher, plus a bit at the end about Spy Seal.
1:26:41-02:02:23: And then it’s time for a lively round of Graeme Has A Thought Experiment (That Jeff Reacts To Like It’s A Trap)! This time out: “How would you feel if 2000 A.D. gave Halo Jones to someone else?” Discussed: Marvelman/Miracleman, Watchmen, Doomsday Clock, Omega The Unknown, the late capitalism comfort matrix, and more.
2:02:23-02:18:32: Jeff has been dying to say a few words about Metal #1 by Scotty Snyder and Greg Capullo—not just for the majority of this episode but for weeks. RANT MODE ENGAGED (although it’s really more of a conversation because Graeme himself also has some things to say and some excellent points).
2:25:08-end: Closing comments! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr, and on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
Next week: Wait, What? Ep. 233! Due to Jeff’s semi-annual pilgrimage, it will be up later than usual—look for it by Thursday, September 14!
0:00-50:13: Greetings! We are right into it because we have a lot to talk about! Because Dan Coyle demanded it, we are going to talk about the entire run of Star Brand from the 1980s. But first! Jeff has to talk about The Defenders. the eight episode miniseries on Netflix that is the culmination of Marvel and Netflix’s strategy for the last three years. Full spoilers as Jeff vents, decries, and bemoans the experience. SPOILERS for the full series as we discuss not only it, but the two seasons of Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, a little bit of Iron Fist, the Inhumans IMAX flick, and even the Punisher trailer (see above).
50:13-1:03:11: Also, on Netflix: an American adaptation of genuine manga classic Death Note directed by Adam Wingard! While less worthy of Jeff’s ire, it has some very interesting adaptation choices he cannot stop fixating on, and so I guess it seemed like a really good idea to share with you here? (It beats livetweeting, I guess?) (Lakeith Stanfield, tho!)
1:03:11-2:09:31: But then finally…there was nothing else for us to do but finally discuss Star Brand, Jim Shooter’s flagship title for his burgeoning New Universe line back in 1986. Fortunately[?] for us, all of Shooter’s issues, as well as the follow-up stories by various writers until John Byrne steps in to steer the book from issue #11 until its end, are collected in two trades by Marvel, and we are here to talk about *all* of it. Discussed: Jim Shooter and his remarkable take on morality and sex, the difference between supporting characters who seem based on real people and people who don’t, Bobbie Chase’s amazing annual, the “rules” of the New Universe, The Greatest American Hero, South Park, The Pitt, and much, much more.
2:09:31-2:33:10: So much more, in fact, that Graeme has supplemental material about the New Universe, including an overview of Spitfire and the Troubleshooters, a fun fact about Strikeforce: Morituri, the Quasar epilogue issue, and of course…much, much more. And then…
2:33:10-end: Closing comments! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr, and on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
Next week: Wait, What? Ep. 232! Look for it on Labor Day U.S.A., Monday!
[Apologies everyone: show notes here are super-quick this time around as Jeff ran himself ragged this weekend and is still trying to prep for an even busier week. So not as many images, and not as many notes, but they and the episode are indeed here. Enjoy!]
[Also, it looks like the audio player isn’t loading, which is kind of a drag and we promise to work on soon?]
0:00-7:03: Greetings from Graeme “Trapped in a Heat Wave” McMillan and Jeff “Trapped in a World He Never Made” Lester! We recorded this episode much earlier than usual (Wednesday, August 2) which should be the major talking point of these introductory comments, but instead a surprisingly long discussion about the weather. (Okay, probably not that surprising if you’ve heard us before.)
7:03-13:09: First order of business! Graeme read and was *very* impressed by the recent Eisner winning graphic novel The Art of Charlie Chan Hock Chye by Sonny Liew,and he tells us a bit about here. (Jeff certainly has vowed to pick it up soon.)
13:09-47:36: And since Graeme mentioned picking up the book at SDCC, you’d think we’d actually talk about news from the Con, wouldn’t we? Well, guess what? We do. How’s that for a shocker? Discussed: Superman: Year One, Ed Piskor’s X-Men: Grand Design, The Terrifics by Jeff Lemire and Ivan Reis; meeting Frank Miller; yachting with Geoff Johns; meeting a bunch of great people (hello, Kyle!), the amazing Tom King panel, and more.
47:36-1:13:32: And from there, we move to Hibbs’ extraordinarily eye-opening piece about trying to order Marvel books for their upcoming Marvel Legacy. Here’s the tasty pull quote Graeme and I both posted on Twitter independently of each other: “Literally, you are being asked to purchase comics you can’t sell, in order to gain access to comics that you can.” We also spend some time seeing if we could puzzle out what’s going on with the terms offered in Marvel’s leaked book catalogue.
1:13:32-1:27:14: Movie time! Want to hear why we recorded this episode early? Or what movie Jeff thought was a very odd remake of Magnolia? Or our discussion about Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World? If not, skip this section!
1:27:14-1:48:37: But, yes, we do also talk about comics here on this podcast from time to time. For example, this little segment where we discuss: Kamandi Challenge #7 by Marguerite Bennett, Dan Jurgens, and Klaus Janson; Yes Roya, by C. Spike Trotman and Emilee Denich; Shaolin Cowboy: Who’ll Stop The Reign #1 by Geoff Darrow with Dave Stewart; and more.
1:48:37-1:58:58: And then, as promised in the Book of Revelation, we discuss Manga Povertyby Sato Shuho and translated by Dan Luffey. It’s a remarkable book with some eye-opening insights into how professional mangaka are paid, although Graeme had some problems with the second half of the bok that are very understandable.
1:58:58-end: And then! Closing comments! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr, and on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
Next week: Baxter Building Ep. 32! Covering Fantastic Four issues #285-295 concluding the epic run by John Byrne!
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