Of course the rumor about the potential DC relaunch broke the very day after we recorded the last episode. Why would it break before we recorded, so that Jeff and I could’ve talked about it?…
00:00-17:43: Greetings and Happy New Year from Graeme “I Didn’t Lose Consciousness, I Just Blacked Out” McMillan and Jeff “No, That Is Exactly What Happens When You Lose Consciousness: You BLACK OUT” Lester, who have a very extended non-comics opening session that involves the Snowpocalypse, bicycles, learning to ride bicycles, the delay some of us might’ve had in learning to ride bicycles, rude four year olds, growing up out in the middle of nowhere, and, yes, blacking out. 17:43-1:09:46: Okay, so yes comic books. Don’t worry, we remember! (Or…do we?) Following on the heels of his recent post here at the website, Graeme and I talk about DC’s Teen Titans. More specifically, DC’s comic book incarnation of the Teen Titans, and even more specifically, the revitalization of that title (which we could more honestly remove the “re-“ and call a vitalization) under Marv Wolfman and George Pérez, as well as what happened to it afterward. Graeme has read a huge ton of the material recently—including Teen Titans Omnibus1, 2, and 3, as well as the New 52 trades and the current Titans Hunt series by Dan Abnett, Paulo Siqueira, and Geraldo Borges—whereas Jeff has been out of the Titans loop for a very long time, but was a fan of the Wolfman/Pérez material back in the day. Discussed/referenced: The Beatles, Chris Claremont, the Uncanny X-Men, the Dark Phoenix storyline, The Judas Contract, that “annoying blond guy,” the second big Trigon storyline and the secret theory about it that Jeff never gets to utter because there’s too much gabbing going on.
(PODCAST BONUS: That theory? About a story Jeff never finished reading? The theory is that Raven was sexually abused by her demonic father and Wolfman thought he could make the icky subtextual link between icky sexual abuse and demonic evil into actual text in the direct market-only Baxter-approved book but then wasn’t able to for whatever reason and then had nowhere else to go…unless that is indeed what happened, in which case it’s just as well I didn’t mention it on-air anyway.)
Also discussed: Wolfman’s confession about his years-long creative block and subpar work; the importance of George Pérez as the detailed yang to Wolfman’s scattered yin; the gap between Paul Smith and John Romita, Jr., and between George Pérez and José Luis Garcia-Lopez; Bob McLeod, as penciller and inker; the artistic legacy of the New Mutants; Kurt Schaffenberger; Louise Simonson taking over New Mutants; Doug Ramsey as an example of the limitation of the superhero genre; slowly typing in those stupid programs onto the VIC-20 that never worked right; the movie War Games and The Hacker’s Handbook; Chris Claremont not being down with X-Factor; post-Tumblr DC; the three distinct eras of Teen Titans, including the Geoff Johns and Scott Lobdell’s eras; the Marvel template and the hot-headed feet of clay character; the above-referenced Titans Hunt by Dan Abnett, Paulo Siqueira, and Geraldo Borges (and Stephen Segovia); “racist” Aqualad; the return of Mr. Twister; how to avoid alienating new readers right after attacting them; and more.
1:09:46-1:23:59: FINALLY, we put the Titans to rest and move on to a new timecode as we segue from how Titans Hunt handles its approach to a reboot with the new nonboot from All New All Different Marvel. Discussed: Al Ewing’s work on the current incarnation of The Ultimates, and why he’d be the perfect writer for The Fantastic Four;Marvel winning truly new comic readers and then losing them with a reboot; the end of the first volume of Ms. Marvel;The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl’s upcoming crossover with Howard The Duck; Chip Zdarsky on Howard The Duck vs. Chip Zdarsky on Jughead; what happens when sales targets are not met and how to measure those sales targets; and whether or not sales on Marvel’s Star Wars books are leveling or actually dropping.
1:23:59-1:37:59: And because Jeff has finally(!!) seen Star Wars: The Force Awakens, we move into moderate spoiler territory as we talk about the difficulty Marvel might have in doing Star Wars comics in The Force Awakens milieu, even though they absolutely should despite [SPOILERS] and [SPOILERS] and [SPOILERS]. Also discussed: the awkward comic book shenanigans caused by the end of Star Trek III: The Search for Spock; Stars Wars: The Road to the Force Awakens—Look Out, Here Comes The Force Awakens;iZombie, Lucifer, and the twelve recent Vertigo launches including by Slash And Burn by Si Spencer who is NOT Si Spurrier; and more.
1:37:59-1:46:39: And that “more” lets Jeff steer the convo over to High School Debut, his newest manga crush from Kazune Kawahara who is the writer of other current manga crush object, My Love Story!! High School Debut is Kawahara’s earlier project where she was both writer and artist, and Jeff may like it even more that MLS!! Discussed: a comparison of buying for the Kindle and reading on Comixology to smuggling cigarettes; the hook for High School Debut; and an eensy bit more.
1:46:39-1:50:58: “But let’s flip it back to you Graeme,” sez Jeff. “what have you been reading recently, apart from a shit-ton of Teen Titans?” Although Graeme insists at first he’s been reading nothing but Teen Titans, in fact he’s also been catching up with the Valiant titles, in part after reading the CBR list of the Best 100 comics of 2015. Find out the books that Graeme would pay money to keep reading and which books had potential and lost momentum.
1:50:58-2:12:30: Graeme has also been reading a lot of prose, including Elvis Costello’s Unfaithful Music & Disappearing Ink. Come for the book review, stay for Jeff’s encounter with Mr. C and, more importantly, something somone once said about the film classic Gregory’s Girl that he unconditionally believed for thirty years. And then…
2:12:30-end: *No* closing comments! That’s right, due to some miscommunication between Jeff and the wife lady, he has to leave Toot Sweet (which, no, does not mean he has his throat cut with a straight razor by Mickey Rourke). And so, we do not get a chance to extend on-air our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 113 of our supporters on Patreon who make our show possible.
Fortunately, Graeme does have the time before we go to check out the Gregory’s Girl story and disprove it, crushing a three decade long belief by Jeff. Right. Into. The. Fucking. Dirt. And maybe it’s just me, but Graeme seems actually pretty delighted to do so? I mean, Jeff was basically like this:
Anyway, look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr! And, of course, where, as of this count, 115 patrons make this whole thing possible!
Next week: episode 13 of Baxter Building! Read up on issues #103-112 of the Fantastic Four and join us for your monthly dose of semi-historical comic analyses. We’ll see you then!
The holidays are upon us, and we are working hard to make sure you have more than enough Wait, What? with which to ring in the new year. So I hope you’ll understand if I move right into the “shownotes” portion of this afternoon’s entertainment so I can hustle on to the next podcast-related project:
00:00-01:47: Greetings from Graeme “Making Tea” McMillan and Jeff “Making Lemonade” Lester who start off by talking about tech problems, and worrying about whether or not we’re going to have them (SPOILERS: we are.)
01:47-38:26: Before we get to the comic book talk, we thought it might be worth doing a bit of comic book media talk first—more specifically, the relatively recent first trailer for Captain America: Civil War, and the very recent new trailer for Batman Vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice. We discuss, compare, and contrast both. The cameos! The dialogue! The course corrections! What Jeff’s wife lady thought! Head’s up: because BvS:DoJ was fresher in our memory, we discuss that one in far more detail, including intentionality, dream sequences, Stucky and the possibility of cleaner motivation for Cap in the film version of Civil War as opposed to the comic; Jeff’s not especially correct “Rule of Three” for Marvel trailers; and much more.
38:26-1:15:58: And from there we go to the Marvel/Netflix show, Jessica Jones, via the pivot of wondering if the show—which Jeff has seen all of, and Graeme turned off after the first episode—feel like it’s happening in the same place, the same shared universe, as Daredevil and the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Also discussed: Agents of SHIELD;Heroes; Girls; Mike Colter as Luke Cage; Krysten Ritter as Jessica Jones; Rosario Dawson as Claire Temple; David Tennant as Killgrave; Veronica Mars; what they could do for Season Two; Jessica’s transition in the comics from main character to supporting character; the appearance of [VILLAIN] that seems certain to appear on Season Two of Daredevil; the cutesy little thing Jeph Loeb does that drives Jeff crazy; the appearance of Ernie and Gus-Gus in apparent defense of Jeph Loeb; Jessica Jones vs. The Flash; the very low standards of viewers of Agents of SHIELD; Jessica Jones vs. Supergirl; the slow development of different tones for superhero shows and movies; and more. (And if you’re interested, there’s a whole bunch of stuff Jeff didn’t get around to saying that he finally does just below this very post.)
1:15:58-1:29:28: “But, yes! Comic books! I would like to discuss those!” Jeff announces, a slight and subtle transition for us to move on to the four-colored side of things (although that phrase really isn’t applicable any more, is it?). First up: The Sheriff of Babylon #1 by Tom King and Mitch Gerads, about a military contractor in Baghdad 2003 tasked with training a new Iraqi police force. Jeff utters words he never thought he’d ever say; Graeme admits to reading the first issue multiple times; the phrase “it’s not a perfect comic” utterly multiple times in multiple ways; the movie Green Zone is brought up in a less-than-fond way; and more.
1:29:28-1:35:14:The Vision #2, also by Tom King, with art by Gabriel Hernandez Walta, also came out this week, so Jeff gets compare and contrast it a bit with The Sheriff of Babylon. Discussed: playing out the string; compelling arguments for trade-waiting; the heyday of Marvel decompression; a mix of Alan Moore and Brian Bendis; the second chapter in a trade versus the second issue of comic; which leads to…
1:35:14-1:42:47: The second issue of Unfollow by Rob Williams and Mike Dowling! Graeme thought that Ravan was an utterly compelling lead for the second issue which turns the book into a ensemble book. Interestingly enough, we do our best to avoid spoiling the climax of the second issue which is a thing we do not usually even try to do. As Graeme points out, this is a sign we really like the book and want to encourage people to read it? Also discussed: the stunning art by Mike Dowling and colors by Quinton Winter; Jeff being more willing to tradewait; Graeme feeling like the second issue takes what we see in the first issue and twists it or challenges versus Jeff feeling eh, not so much; and Jeff’s weird feeling that maybe Unfollow #2 might’ve stood out more if he hadn’t already read The Sheriff of Babylon and This Damned Band #5 by Paul Cornell and Tony Parker.
1:42:47-1:50:26: “Where are you on Batman and Robin Eternal?” asks Graeme, and so the truth comes out: Jeff, Batman fanatic who had read all of Batman Eternal, hasn’t made it past issue #2 of the book yet (although continuing to buy and stockpile issues) while Graeme is completely up-to-date on the series and is still digging it. That said, Graeme has been worrying about the future of Batman and Robin Eternal’s satisfying single driving plot approach after getting and reading Earth Two: World’s End Vol. 2 (issues #12-26 of the weekly series) by Daniel Wilson, Marguerite Wilson, Cullen Bunn and, as is usually the case with weekly books, a veritable infantry of comic book artists; Jeff talks about getting in the weeds for weekly comics, the presence of James Tynion IV on both Batman Forever and Batman and Robin Forever, and its sequel; and more.
1:50:26-2:11:38: In discussing the recent Action Comics and Superman storyline, Graeme brings up a great point about how much depends on his mood when he’s reading. Among the topics discussed: underground fight clubs for mythical creatures; the return of Sand Superman; Robin War #1; mainlining Phonogram, The Wicked & the Divine, and Black Magick; an insightful Secret Convergence post about how podcasts are assembled and the risks of reading too many comics; Spidey #1 by Robbie Thompson and Nick Bradshaw; Spider-Man Chapter One by John Byrne; The Ship of Theseus paradox, as mentioned by both Matt Terl in our DK3 roundtable and Paul O’Connor’s review of Amazing Spider-Man #1 over at his terrific Longbox Graveyard website; and then Graeme starts cutting out in his spirited argument of Ms. Marvel as a great Spider-Man figure but then we do manage to more or less talk about what does make for a great Spider-Man figure and then…
2:11:38-end: Closing comments! Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 115 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr! And, of course, where, as of this count, 115 patrons make this whole thing possible!
Next week: Episode 12 of Baxter Building. Read up on issues #95-102 of the Fantastic Four and join us for your monthly dose of semi-historical comic analyses!
Welcome to the super-early, pre-surgical edition of Wait, What? Jeff is heading in to deal with a minor health condition (that rhymes with pygmy scones) which will kind of make our usual Monday mid-day drop time a bit on the impossible side. So pull up the player of choice, kick back with the following show notes, and try not to think of one of your hosts squirming in discomfort on a hospital gurney somewhere. (Cheery, right? Seriously, don’t worry about me: I’ll be drugged to the gills.) (I hope.) 00:00-9:19: Greetings from Jeff “Whoville” Lester and Graeme “The Graemetown Massacre” McMillan, who feel like they haven’t talked in a while…because they haven’t! It’s a fine jumping off point for a bit of pre-comics talk about human intimacy, Aziz Ansari’s Modern Romance, the atrophying of conversational muscles, Twitter changing from stars to hearts, Countdown to Zero Day: Stuxnet and the Launch of the World’s First Digital Weapon, The Journalist and the Murderer, and other potentially depressing ephemera.
9:19-26:43: Yes, ephemera! Not like good old live-forever-and-can-never-die comic books! Graeme has been thinking about the latter and he’s got stuff to blow our mind with. He’s been looking at sales figures and he’s got some very interesting insights to share with us, including how Star Wars comics are essentially the fourth largest comics publisher in the direct market, how much money DC is seeing from issues of Prez (with help from the info assembled by Alex De Campi, Printing costs and other behind-the-scenes info from Jim Zub). Discussed: DC You and profit, Snakes on a Plane, the Batgirl of Burnside, The Dark Knight Returns and the prestige format books, how to craft a book that is both safe and has the potential to go wide, and more.
26:43-55:46: In the course of talking about books from the Big Two that take some risks, Jeff brings up the first issue of Vision by Tom King, Gabriel Hernandez Walta, and Jordie Bellaire. Graeme has thoughts about it too, some of them relating to the recent first issue roundtable we did with Matt Terl on the website, Impressively enough, we manage to keep the end of the issue unspoiled but otherwise consider it pretty much ALL SPOILERS, ALL THE TIME. but Discussed: tradewaiting, slow burns, second issues sales, a mission statement framed via a semantic argument, Mr. Spock in American Beauty, an almost comical reluctance by Jeff to bring up Alan Moore, the “return” to Marvel’s 70s diversity, our own struggles with comic book cynicism, and more.
55:46-1:03:52: Graeme wants to talk about Ms. Marvel #19 by G. Willow Wilson and Adrian Alphona, which was so satisfying for Graeme that he kind of feels…done with it? With everything happening at Marvel, there’s probably never been a better time to talk about Jumping Off Points (well, okay, except for maybe the New 52), and so that’s something we kick around the old sonic playing field. (I probably shouldn’t tell you this, but you may get a lot more out of the first two minutes of the conversation if you’re aware that Jeff is confused and thinks Graeme is talking about Captain Marvel but is trying to hide it.) Discussed: Alan Moore leaving Swamp Thing, the post-Morrison years of Animal Man, and more.
1:03:52-1:09:21: A mention of Al Ewing reminds Graeme that in approximately two months all of Mr. Ewing’s work on Loki will be available on Marvel Unlimited, and this is a seventeen issue run that Graeme very much recommends. Discussed: whether or not one should read Gillen’s Journey Into Mystery (and Young Avengers) before reading Ewing’s run, Mighty Avengers as a victim of Marvel Eventitis, and more.
1:09:21-1:19:00: “Marvel Unlimited is such an amazing resource,” says Jeff, before going on to talk about how his mad month-long buying spree on Comixology has him reading purchased stuff instead of all that (amazing!) all-you-can-eat stuff. Will Jeff disclose how much he spent? Can Graeme find a gentle way to tell his friend has a problem? Discussed: how much Graeme spent at the comic store; the first week of Jeff’s experiment of foregoing floppies (and his store discount) and buying digitally; the issues Jeff bought this week, which leads us to…
1:19:00-1:27:20: “Hey, so what’d you think of Unfollow, then?” Graeme asks, which gives us both a chance to talk about how much we enjoyed Unfollow #1 by Rob Williams, Michael Dowling, and Quinton Winter. Vertigo has had a pretty strong batch of first issue launches recently, but this is so far the strongest. Discussed: Survivors Club and Stephen King’s It; The Sheriff of Babylon and Jacked; Dowling’s beautiful art; Mark Millar and Grant Morrison; and more.
1:27:20-1:30:33: Jeff wants to talk about the first issue of Platinum End, by the Death Note/Bakuman team of Ohba and Obata and very much in the vein of the former than the latter. At the time of recording, it hadn’t seemed like a lot of people knew that you can buy each chapter digitally for ninety-nine cents at the same time as its Japanese release. You can get it at Viz; you can get it at Comixology; you can get it on Amazon for the Kindle. As Jeff puts it, “If you want to see what Mark Millar is going to be ripping off two years from now, check it out.”
1:30:33-1:35:11: Graeme wants to know if Jeff’s picked up Monstress by Marjorie Liu and Sana Takeda. Is it, as Graeme calls it “the ultimate Image book?” We go on to discuss it, along with Sarah Horrocks’ piece on Bitch Planet, Graeme utters the phrase, “I don’t even like fantasy, and this book is stunning to me.” (At the time of recording Jeff hadn’t, but he did not long after based on what Graeme says here and was pretty impressed… as you can see here.) The first issue is 71 pages for $4.99, it looks beautiful, and as Graeme says (and I go on to agree with in my piece), “Marjorie Liu is bring some really impressive fucking chops to it.”
1:35:11-1:39:51: The other first issue? The new James Bond book, Vargr, by Warren Ellis and James Masters. SPOILERS: It sounds pretty good…certainly better than Jeff’s take on what might happen.
1:39:51-1:43:58: We’ve both read Klaus #1 by Grant Morrison and Dan Mora. Considering it’s a comic book about Santa Claus, you would think Graeme would love it, right? Did he? Didn’t he? You’ll find out but you’ll hear a lot more about it from Jeff who refers to it as The Game of Thrones Christmas Special. (Which it’s really not, but come on, that would be AMAZING.)
1:43:58-1:48:10: If you did read the first issue roundtable, you’ll know both Jeff and Greeme were pretty underwhelmed by the first issue of Paper Girls by Brian K Vaughan and Cliff Chiang. So along comes issue #2 and….we happily eat ourselves some crow. Discussed: Whether Brian K. Vaughan is doing Lost even though he worked on Lost, or whether Brian K. Vaughan is doing Under the Dome even though he worked on Under the Dome; FULL SPOILERS for plot developments in the issue; Jeff compares the second issue of Survivors Club versus the second issue of Paper Girls, and an eensy bit more.
1:48:10-2:11:16: Just to finish up talking about books we discussed on the roundtable…Jeff is a few issues behind on reading Batman and Robin Eternal, but Graeme is still reading it and, remarkably enough, is onboard! Discussed: the delight of a monoplot; how long this weekly book lasts; how long it takes before the “everything changes!” trick wears thin; Batman comics written by Scott Snyder’s clique and Batman comics written by people outside Scott Snyder’s clique; Pete Tomasi and the Curse of Pete Tomasi [Note: not officially referred to out loud as the Curse of Pete Tomasi], the Justice League Darkseid War one-shots, and issues #40-45 of Justice League which we revisit because Jeff picked them up after Graeme talked about them last time. (Seriously, we talk about them a lot.)
2:11:16-end: Closing comments! We try to figure out what’s coming up next…which is confusing in part because next episode is our Secret Convergence of Infinite Podcasts episode. Graeme won’t be here (he’s on episodes 1, 3, and 5 of the crossovers) but Jeff will be joined by Chico Leo, Gary Lactus, and Paul O’Brien, discussing “The Worm Turns: Characters, Comic Books, and Creators We Used to Love But Now Hate, and Vice-Versa.” Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 114 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible. Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr! And, of course, where, as of this count, 114 patrons make this whole thing possible!
Okay, so check out the first comment if you need a link to cut and paste into the player of your choice, and, hey, maybe even drop us a note if you want? That might be…nice? Either way, as always, thank you for listening!
Early trick? Infrequent Treat? Either way, Wait, What? Ep. 187 is at your doorstep, dressed up this year as “Sexy All Things Considered”! This episode is two and a half hours of Graeme and Jeff sonically toilet-papering comics’ house, and you’re invited to hide in the bushes and snicker with us!
(For those of you reading this who don’t have Halloween in your location, I hope that paragraph was more charmingly surreal than vexingly impenetrable.)
Anyway, let’s get on with those show notes, shall we? This year, they’re dressed up as “Sexy Medical Consultation Notes”!
00:00-13:47: Greetings from Jeff “I Am The Devil!” Lester and Graeme “Yes, He Is The Devil” McMillan, who are off and running almost immediately thanks to some pressing comic book questions, like: was the Son of Satan actually, y’know, the son of Satan? Discussed: J.M. DeMatteis, The Defenders, Buddha and Anti-Buddha, The Twentieth Century Satans, the David Bowie with the least amount of Bowie Flavor, the world’s meekest defense of Elvis Costello, Marvel’s recent BOGO sale, Iron Fist, Power Man, and Power Man & Iron Fist, and more. “Patient’s autonomous reflexes are responsive…especially the sexy reflexes!”
13:47-34:59: But still tho: Iron Fist. Jeff has been re-reading from Iron Fist’s debut in Marvel Premiere #15 and so as you can imagine we discuss: Iron Fist, the Marvel premiere of Iron Fist (in Marvel Premiere), the career of Pat Broderick, the episode when Jeff suffers a stroke on-air, the penciling debut of Larry Hama and some of the visuals that get carried over to G.I. Joe, Tony Isabella as Gerhard Schnobble, Batroc The Leaper, the origin of Ghost Rider, Seeker 3000, Crystar’s comrade in arms Beau Bridges, Mag-NEET-oh vs. Mag-NET-Oh, the origin of The Champions, Jimmy Woo founding member of the Defenders, and etc. “Patient’s seems dazed and only partially responsive to questioning…unless the questions are sexy and provocative!”
34:59-1:02:43: But of course a big deal about early Iron Fist stories is it’s where a certain Chris Claremont gets his first ongoing series (and with John Byrne, his first regular collaborator) and just like with Hama, it’s pretty damn interesting to see how much of Claremont’s interests, obsessions, and tropes are here in nascent form and how much of them are just…there, right from the get-go. Discussed: softball, creator cameos, mind control, the success of Spider-Man eyes, Bill Everett and Amazing Man, Batroc The Leaper as Pepé Le Pew, Chris Claremont’s scripts, what made the X-Men sell and sell and sell, Claremont and his desire to create tiny little stories about people, how everyone in the cast powers up and the bionic arm reveal in Iron Fist #3, Neil Conan NPR Reporter and Moira McTaggert, Peter Corbeau, more about Jo Duffy on Power Man and Iron Fist, Kerry Gammill, Trevor Von Eeden, Bob MacLeod on New Mutants vs. Bill Sienkiewicz on New Mutants, and much more in that vein. “Veins and pulse rate are shallow…except for the sexier veins. MROWR!”
1:02:43-1:17:16: “I want to spin us around entirely differently,” Graeme announces, “and say did you got to the store this week?” Jeff hasn’t, and technically neither has Graeme but thanks to the miracle of digital downloads and comp copies, he’s here to talk about one of his favorite books of the week, Justice League #45 by Geoff Johns, Francis Manipul and Brian Buccellato. “You have this absolutely ridiculous plot and this astounding art, and I just finished it being like ‘why can’t Justice League *always* like this? This is amazing!’” SPOILERS for this arc, The Darkseid War, and also SPOILERS for Brian Hitch’s opening arc on Justice League which Graeme is also enjoying. Also discussed: Geoff Johns tropes, The Amazo Virus, old rumors from the time of Final Crisis, Jeff Lemire and Justice League Dark, Jeff Parker and Justice League United, “Even Cowgirls Get The Plants,” and more. “Conjunctivae pink. Sclerae anicteric. Oropharynx clear…and hotter than a barbecue pit in July!”
1:17:16-1:22:14: “You know what I’ve been enjoying more than anything?” Graeme asks, but thank goodness it’s a rhetorical question because Jeff doesn’t know. “Bad Machinery.” Discussed: yup, you guessed it: Bad Machinery by John Allison, a comic that Graeme says is “perfectly tuned to my sense of humor and my sense of the ridiculous,” the template for Bad Machinery cases, and SPOILERS for the upcoming volume from Oni, The Case of the Lonely One(and what Jeff does not say but should have is that Graeme would probably like him some Daniel Pinkwater). ” No cyanosis, clubbing or edema…except for *erotic* edema!”
1:22:14-1:28:03: As becomes clear from the conversation that follows, Graeme has not read Jeff’s review of The Colonel of Two Worlds,( and Jeff is okay with that!) but he has read the comic itself, so the duo are able to discuss that very fun and strange freebie comic. Discussed: the importance of unjustified ridiculousness, the new sincerity and the new irony.” This area was mildly indurated. There was absolutely no erythema or fluctuance and it was not tender at all. No drainage…except for the *love* drainage!”
1:28:03-1:49:12: Although he did not get to the store, Jeff did read a lot of comics and he wanted to talk about Captain Marvel #35-46, more or less by Steve Englehart and Al Milgrom. This period falls right after the stunning run by Jim Starlin and, being buds and partying pals of Starlin, Englehart and Milgrom have big shoes to fill but also a semi-sympatico sensibility (and with that I’ll just collect my Alliteration Award at the window and be on my way, thank you very much)…or do they? Discussed: The Lunatic Legion, dropping acid in the Negative Zone, The Trial of the Watcher, the Skrull version of the MacArthur Genius Grant, the secret origin of Captain Marvel, space mules, how the storyline should’ve ended, Field of Dreams, and more. ALSO ALSO: If you want to read a little bit more about how less than spotless this run is, Jeff uses the letters pages as an example here. “1+ posterior tibialis bilaterally. Feet are warm and capillary refill a bit slow but still less than 2 seconds. Decreased hair…which suggests sexy waxing! (Or hair loss.)”
1:49:12-2:00:51: Really, we should be just about done, right? Well, no, not quite: Jeff, knowing how much Graeme has had to write about Star Wars recently, asks Graeme about…Star Wars! And yet, Graeme doesn’t quite take the bait and pivots instead to discuss…Back To The Future Day! Also discussed: the impeccable craft of the first Back To The Future movie; Jeff’s suspicions about Back To The Future and Forrest Gump, Graeme’s criticism of how Back To The Future 2 steals the thunder of Back To The Future 3; Graeme’s criticism of Jeff’s theory, especially in light of the villain of Back To The Future 2 being deliberately modeled on Donald Trump, FULL SPOILERS for Back To The Future 2, shooting sequels back to back and whether that can work with movies that aren’t books, and more. “Heart is Regular rate and rhythm without murmur, rub or gallop except for intermittent pangs…OF SEXY LOVE.”
2:00:51-2:27:48: “I like how we were actually ‘let’s talk about Star Wars’ and we totally didn’t,” sez Graeme, and so we finally do. Discussed: The release schedule for Star Wars movies, Greg Rucka’s Journey To Star Wars—The Force Awakens miniseries (and Graeme’s review), whether the new movie would be more satisfying the less you know about it, J.J. Abrams *KEEPER OF MYSTERIES*, Star Trek Into Darkness and Graeme’s rewatch and Jeff’s refusal to believe anything Graeme says now, rewatching Man of Steel vs. rewatching Green Lantern, rewatching Avengers vs. rewatching Avengers Age of Ultron, the good moment from The Phantom Menace, why Jeff likes John Cassaday on Star Wars and why Graeme likes Stuart Immonen on Star Wars, and more. “Possible abnormal chest xray. Will repeat today….over a romantic candlelight dinner in the nude!”
2:27:48-close: Closing comments! Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 112 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible. Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr!
NEXT WEEK: Another skip week since there were five Thursdays this month and the very last Thursday is right before Jeff’s birthday so…yes, no podcast next week and blame Jeff for that.
HOWEVER, did you read all of the roundtablebetweenGraeme, Matt, and I about the first issues of Paper Girls, Survivors’ Club, Batman & Robin Eternal, and Doctor Strange? It’s like a podcast for the eyes! It’s worth a read! We had a lot of fun doing it and will probably want to do more!
ALSO, on Friday, Graeme and Jeff are special guest-stars on the only movie podcast in the universe, Travis Bickle on the Riviera! We are on part two of the massive Spookstravaganza where Sean Witzke, Travis Stone, and an unstoppable super-team of cinematic smartypants look at the film of Ridley Scott versus the films of Tony Scott! Go check out Part 1 so you can be prepared for the sonic chair match that is Graeme vs. Jeff vs. Sean vs. Tony Scott’s Domino!!!
ALSO ALSO, Secret Convergence on Infinite Podcasts starts this week so keep an eye out on the Secret Convergence tumblr so you can catch the first crossover at Fan Bros featuring our very own Graeme McMillan!
It looks like the auto-embedding of the player is back so look to our first comment if you need a link for cutting and pasting needs. And as always, thank you for listening!
KFC: THE COLONEL OF TWO WORLDS: As a kid, back when comic books were more out of reach than they are now, I remember being delighted whenever a free comic came my way. For a…
First, big thanks to Ed Corcoran for providing the perfect title for this episode!
Second, here we are! This episode is a little early due to: the holiday weekend, some weird scheduling, and the desire to get a jump on the coming week which promises to be a bit of a sledge hammer. So let us begin, shall we?
00:00-12:51: Greetings from Graeme “Cheers” McMillan and Jeff “Dora the Explorer” Lester, who are here once again for you! Not only do we mention those two TV shows in the first two minutes, we also talk about Spider-Gwen #1, as read recently on Marvel Unlimited (under threat of physical violence)! Although we both enjoyed the first issue, we talk about Jeff’s impressions of the book based on later issues, whether the book’s appeal rests solely with the creative team or not, whether or not the term “What-If’ing” is a thing or not, and more. And this is also a fine time for Jeff to gripe about the Spider-Verse hardcover he got for super-cheap during an Amazon pricing SNAFU. Did Marvel take passive-aggressive revenge on the advance order pilferers? Or is it just that a lot of the stories at least semi-terrible? Discuss!
12:51-45:06: Then, our whistles whetted, it’s time for us to Q our little A’s off, with part two of our Q&A ‘cast, answering questions submitted to us by our mighty squad of patrons! First up is Chris Carfora, who asks: “1. Discussion Point: Have we reached the end of the age of Superhero comics? Seems like superhero movies are going through a bit of a golden age but i can’t say the same for the comics. With the reboots coming every two years now it just feels like the creators are constantly going over old territory and rehashing old ideas. Is there just not anything left to say about Superheroes? With the rise of independent comics and the availability of self-published comics through comixology and the like, do you foresee a shift away from superhero comics? 2. What would be your dream creative collaboration on your dream comic? Just to clarify, it can be past creators or current, so if you want Grant Morrison and Jack Kirby on Challengers of the Unknown go for it. 3. What cancelled or lapsed title would you most like to see resurrected? 4. In what way has the rise of marvel unlimited, comixology and other digital platforms changed the industry? Is this change a good thing?”
(Whew!) Discussed: the Direct Market; Jim Lee’s 1:5000 variant for Dark Knight III; Marvel’s troll response with a Deadpool variant cover; creator participation; Starbrand and Nightmask; the illusion of change versus the illusion of the illusion of change; Irredeemable, Incorrigible, Incorruptible, Incontinent, and Insufferable; Graeme not understanding Jeff at all; crazy lists of dream teams for his dream comics including the Steve Gerber comic in heaven; Jason Aaron and Jason Latour on the amazing Marvel character, Razorback; Al Ewing and Henry Flint on Fantastic Four; the sequel to last year’s Judge Dredd epic, Titan, again by Rob Williams and Henry Flint; Aimee Bender and Pascal Ferry on Machine Man; Graeme summarizes the short but lively run of DC’s The Chosen; the crazy price discrepancies between some digital trades on both Marvel and Comixology (such as the Skull The Slayer and Weirdworld trades which are $10 cheaper on the Kindle); and more.
45:06-58:27: Carlos Aguilar asks: “1. Let’s say Image was formed in the 80s instead of the 90s, what 7 artists would you like to have seen leave Marvel (and if you want, DC) to form Image about ten years earlier? 2. Tons of Star Wars news coming out, so, Let’s say you got to pick creative teams for 4 different Star Wars books. What would the four titles be, and who would you have working on them? 3. Who would you like to see run the new incarnation of Heavy Metal instead of Grant Morrison?”Discussed: Miller, Byrne, Perez, Golden, Simonson, Chaykin, and Art Adams (or Dave Cockrum?; the WaP! newsletter and Creator Bill of Rights crowd; being burnt out on Star Wars on the eve of Force Friday; Marvel’s Darth Vader series by Kieron Gillen and Salvador Larroca; Fabio Moon and Gabriel Ba on Boba Fett; Jason Shiga on C-3PO and R2-D2; Richard Corben on Chewbacca; the return of Walt Simonson to Star Wars; Brandon Graham editing Heavy Metal; Douglas Wolk editing Heavy Metal; Warren Ellis editing Heavy Metal; and more.
58:27-1:04:09: Max Brown asks: “It’s been a little while since Jeff has posted or talked about Jason Shiga’s Demon- and since it was Jeff that got me and a bunch of others reading it, it would be great to hear his thoughts on how the book has gotten 10000000x more insane and awesome since then, and on the recent announcement that First Second will be publishing it in collections. Thanks!”Discussed:Jason Shiga’s Demon. [Please note: Jeff actually screws up his issue numbers by one. The amazing chase sequence is in issue #15 and the existential malaise is in issue #14.]
1:04:09-1:36:16: Kevin Moreau asks, “1. What other podcasts, comics-related or otherwise, do either/both of you listen to/recommend? (Aside from Rachel and Miles and Into It, although please feel free to plug those, as well.) 2. What are your go-to sites/publications for comics news, insight, etc., other than your own website and Graeme’s various employers? 3. What are Marvel’s biggest problems today, and what can be done to correct them 3a. Are Secret Wars/All-New-All-Different and the continuing push to make Inhumans happen signs of creative bankruptcy? 4. I know I’ve read (Wait What mascot/patron saint) Steve Englehart comics over the years, but what would you point to as his most important/must-read work, or where should someone start in order to gain a greater appreciation? 5. Would you ever consider a Wait What Facebook group as a place for fans of the show to gather together and talk comics and related interest?” Discussed: House to Astonish; Silence!; Comic Books Are Burning in Hell; Travis Bickle on the Riviera; the Nerdist Writer’s Room; the Guardian’s political podcast; 538’s What’s The Point; a Slate podcast called Working; Serial; Bleeding Cool and its recent trend for crazily biased news stories; The Outhousers; the terrific comics analysis columns by Paul O’Brien and Marc-Olivier Frisch; the surprising read that is comicbook.com; the surprisingly apt metaphor to describe DC’s new relationship to the Direct Market; the Steve Englehart stories you should start with; and more.
1:36:16-1:41:18: Paul Lai asks, “Seems we’ve thrown up our hands after Golden, Silver, Bronze, and the unfortunately named Modern Ages. Should we take for granted that comics are so diverse, diffuse, and mainstream now that maybe marking eras like that will be impossible/irrelevant? Or what about calling it a “Spectrum Age” where all that can really be taken for granted is the diversity?” (Paul actually had a long article he’d written about this that wasn’t accessible when Jeff tried to read it beforehand but it’s up now and it’s a pretty great read that makes a pretty compelling argument.)Discussed: Our less compelling arguments.
1:41:18-1:44:53: John Kim asks, “There are a lot of resets to the status quo in comic (Spiderman, Batman) after said comics try something different. Are the reasons for the resets mainly fan backlash and low sales? Here I am trying to sneak in another question… Are there any good legacy characters in comics?”Discussed: Wally West, Wally West, and Wally West; Batman: Year Zero; and more.
1:44:53-1:57:46: Lewis Smith asks, “Of all the aborted story-lines, new directions, and false starts you guys have read in superhero comics, what was the one you really wanted to see play out?”Discussed: Firestorm as a fire elemental; Steve Englehart’s Fantastic Four and West Coast Avengers runs; the Amazing Spider-Man and headcanon; does Marvel need a reboot; and more.
1:57:46-2:08:12: Ed Corcoran asks, “In a couple of previous episodes, you’ve mentioned the effect the library market has on how trade paperback collections are made and marketed. Can you talk a little more about the economics of that? What kind of comics rely so heavily on libraries? What do libraries look for? Also, are there any plans to collect the Avengers read-through into one big mega-episode?” We’ve tied this in with Drew Meger who asks, “It feels like every episode we hear a mention of some comic or other borrowed from your local library. As a librarian who buys comics for his library, I need to know: What comic titles would you want to see in your Ideal Library? Should we focus on the critical Top 10 list darlings and easy entry points for new readers or should we go obscure and get the titles readers might have been interested in, But not 30 dollar hardbound trade interested?”Discussed: how little we actually know about the economics of graphic novels and the library market; Kate Beaton, Vertical, Fantagraphics, Drawn and Quarterly and Pantheon; a bad maritime metaphor from Jeff, and more.
2:08:12-2:15:48: Paul Spence asks, “Would the Whatnauts offer their views on Kirby’s Marvel series The Eternals. I read The Eternals for the first time this year courtesy of marvel Unlimited and it provoked a mixed response from me. The mythology appeared to be Fourth World Lite mashed up with some of the ideas from Kirby’s 2001, and a serving from Erich Von Daniken’s Chariots of the Gods. The Fourth World of the New Gods becomes the Fourth Host of the Eternals and DC’s Orion becomes Ikaris in The Eternals. This does appear to be a case where Kirby was recycling ideas. My second Kirby related question pertains to the Joe Casey penned Captain Victory and the Galactic Rangers. You covered the early issues in the series on the podcast and expressed both hope, and some trepidation, that it could be a masterpiece, or it could become a train wreck. Now that the mini-series has finished what do you think of the entire run?”Discussed:The Eternals by Jack Kirby, and Joe Casey’s Captain Victory and the Galactic Rangers; and not much more.
2:15:48-2:22:55: Louie Whitford asks, “Why didn’t Eclipse or First Comics survive? Or: What’s your favorite Eclipse series?”Discussed: quick shout-outs for books like Badger, Aztec Ace by Doug Moench and Dan Day; Alec by Eddie Campbell; Sabre by Don McGregor and Billy Graham; Destroyer Duck by Jack Kirby and Steve Gerber; the end of First and Eclipse; and so on.
2:22:55-2:33:01: Michael Loughlin asks, “1) In your opinion, what recent comics (2000s & 2010s) will be regarded as classics in the future? 2) Of all the writers who never worked with him, which writer would have made a good scripter for Jack Kirby? Feel free to choose one of his contemporaries or a current writer.”Discussed; our weird handwringing about the term “classic,” Al Ewing’s Loki and Kieron Gillen’s Journey Into Mystery; Bryan Lee O’Malley’s Scott Pilgrim; and more.
2:33:01-end: Closing comments! Due to some crazy real-life events, I’ve cut out our talk of upcoming episodes and gone straight to Graeme telling you where you can find us on the Internet. Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Tumblr! And, of course, on Patreon where, as of this count, 109 patrons make this whole thing possible! Speaking of which, Jeff has an apology that, thanks to an incisive email from Steve H, we have been tardy in providing the “recommend a book for us to read” perk to long-time patrons. We are in the process of getting organized and it is coming….soon!
Whew! Okay, so we hope you enjoy this episode, keep an eye on this space for what’s coming next, and remember: keep reading those comic books—you never know when you’re going to spend two and a half hours talking about them!
I have, thanks to the local library, recently been doing a deep dive on the somewhat-forgotten series of The New 52. Who read Team 7? Me! Who raced through all 19 issues of Demon Knights?…
Howdy, chums! We’ve got a two and a half hour podcast for you today—we hope that’s okay?
A certain member of the team—I won’t name names but let’s just say it was neither Graeme nor Matt—overcommitted to a certain amount of family activity this weekend, so join us behind the jump for some thorough but speedy show notes, won’t you?
(Not many people know this, but the enmity between Moondragon and Thanos started after the failure of the Disco album (cover pictured here) Mind-Warring You, Mind-Warring Me.)
Oh, good grief. It looks like I will get this podcast posted today (well, technically tonight but I know you’re feeling me). That is a tribute to something, I have to say.
Annnnnyway, show notes are nasty, brutish and short (and, hey, can we get a rapper named Brutish so we can do Nasty, Brutish, and Too Short joke, please please please) but the podcast is a soothing and pleasing two hours. That’s practically the soul of wit for us, amirite? So groove on behind the jump and dig it: Continue reading →
1:09:46-1:23:59: FINALLY, we put the Titans to rest and move on to a new timecode as we segue from how Titans Hunt handles its approach to a reboot with the new nonboot from All New All Different Marvel. Discussed: Al Ewing’s work on the current incarnation of The Ultimates, and why he’d be the perfect writer for The Fantastic Four; Marvel winning truly new comic readers and then losing them with a reboot; the end of the first volume of Ms. Marvel; The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl’s upcoming crossover with Howard The Duck; Chip Zdarsky on Howard The Duck vs. Chip Zdarsky on Jughead; what happens when sales targets are not met and how to measure those sales targets; and whether or not sales on Marvel’s Star Wars books are leveling or actually dropping.
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