Wait, What? Ep. 189: The Secret Convergence on Infinite Podcasts Crossover!

00:00-9:21: Hello, hello, hello!  Today you’re in for something out of the ordinary, as Gary Lactus (from Silence!), Chico Leo (of Fan Bros), and Paul O’Brien of House To Astonish join Jeff Lester on Battlepod for an infinite secret podcast crossover!  Yes, Graeme was whisked away by the Beyonder to another part of the strange dimension known as Battlepod, leaving me to fend for myself against three of the sharpest knives in the comic book podcasting drawer. First up are speedy introductions to one another—punctuated by a lot of “Fer Sure! Fer Sure!” in what is a sudden thickening of my native Californian accent—and then more formal introductions of each of our esteemed guests so you know who they are, where they’re from, and why they’re awesome.

captainamerica-thumbsup9:21-18:41: Intros out of the way, it’s time for us to turn to this episode’s theme (yes, a themed Wait, What? episode—the stakes get higher by the minute!): “The Worm Turns:  Characters, Creators and Books that we used to hate but now love or vice-versa.”  First up:  Paul O’Brien and Captain America!  Discussed by the group: propaganda, the monarchy, Frank Miller and Ales Kot, Mark Millar, good ol’ John Walker, and more.
18:41-36:34: Next, Chico Leo is at plate to talk about…Spider-Man! Discussed by the group: how a simple concept has grown less simple over time, and how attempts to simplify have somehow only made it more complex in some ways; The Simpsons vs. Harry Potter; John Byrne’s take vs. Dan Slott’s comic; the grating gear change at the end of Claremont-infused X-Men stories; Marvel continuity versus the imaginary stories of the DC Silver Age; the idea of the crossover as “naughty universe touching;” and more.
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36:34-48:41: Gary Lactus is up next to talk…Bloodstrike! After discussing the history of the 90s and running into the arms of Dan Clowes, Peter Bagge, and Dan Clowes, Mr. Lactus has come around to talk the charms of one Robert Liefeld.  Discussed: feet; penises in jars; the Inkstuds interview with Rob Liefeld; the first issue of Prophet; the road from sunday school to Black Mass; “he’s a one note creator but sometimes all you need is that one note;” Rob Liefeld’s The Covenant; a quick break as one of Gary Lactus’s former heralds shows up to cause disarray; when the phrase “remarkably sane” is disappointing; and more.
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48:41-54:12: “We’re definitely in the realms of freeformville,” Jeff announces.  “Is there anyone else who maybe has a creator up their sleeve that they have switched on over time?”  And of course Paul chimes in with the name everyone was surely just about to say:  Bret Blevins.  Also discussed: BRET BLEVINS; Louise Simonson; New Mutants; Meltdown: Havok and Wolverine; the importance of watercolors to telling a serious story in the Nineties; and more.
54:12-1:00:36: For follow-up, Chico Leo talks about both a creator with whom he went from “hate” to “love”—the mighty José Luis García López—and from love to hate: Mr. Frank Miller.  Discussed:  “the goddamned Batman;” the term “mind enema;” Woody Allen, Bill Cosby, and the difference between the artist and the art; the secret career of JLGL; and more.
1:00:36-1:10:33: Gary Lactus gets another turn at the creator flip and this time he brings up an excellent choice: Mr. Joe Matt.  Discussed:  confessional comics as the big thing of the ‘90s and what happened; our ability to share and get instant affirmation; Jeff doing strange things to the word “reportage”; Chester Brown’s Paying for It; guys growing up isolated in smaller industrial cities; and more.
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1:10:33-1:29:43:  The book round!  Paul has an excellent choice for this, just as Gary did for creator:  Cerebus The Aardvark.  Mentioned:  The gnostic heresy, the perfect phrase “one of the most technically competent pieces of outsider art ever made;” the literal disbelief with which the turn of Sim’s intentions was greeted by on the Internet; the idea of Cerebus as three different comics; Speakers’ Corner; Gary’s inability to get into Cerebus; The Strange Death of Alex Raymond; watching someone box a stump; Terry Zwigoff’s documentary Crumb; Steve Ditko and Alan Moore; and more.
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 1:29:43-1:36:52:  Gary Lactus has one last worm to turn, and it’s in regards to the Golden Age hero, Mr. Terrific.  It’s a delightful tale well told by GL, one that’s well worth a listen and also a great way to wrap up our adventure.
1:36:52-1:41:28: Because the shimmering cosmic curtain that has gathered is about to dissipate, a call is put out for closing shots.  Chico Leo weighs in with the book he once loved that now he hates:  Mad Magazine.  You may get a glimpse into the time displacement involved in the recording of this episode by our discussion of contemporary politics at the moment…
1:41:28-closing: Closing comments, in no small part because our bladders are incredibly full: each of us tells you where you can find us next. Since I covered a lot of that up in the intro, let me just add the twitter accounts for Mr. Lactus, Mr. Leo, Mr. O’Brien and myself.
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And look out for Episode 7 of the Secret Convergence on Infinite Podcasts over at House to Astonish.
NEXT WEEK:  Graeme returns in a brand new black costume for Baxter Building Episode 11!!
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Wait, What? Ep. 188: Romancing The Stones

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Welcome to the super-early, pre-surgical edition of Wait, What?  Jeff is heading in to deal with a minor health condition (that rhymes with pygmy scones) which will kind of make our usual Monday mid-day drop time a bit on the impossible side.  So pull up the player of choice, kick back with the following show notes, and try not to think of one of your hosts squirming in discomfort on a hospital gurney somewhere.  (Cheery, right?  Seriously, don’t worry about me: I’ll be drugged to the gills.) (I hope.)
00:00-9:19:  Greetings from Jeff “Whoville” Lester and Graeme “The Graemetown Massacre” McMillan, who feel like they haven’t talked in a while…because they haven’t!  It’s a fine jumping off point for a bit of pre-comics talk about human intimacy, Aziz Ansari’s Modern Romance, the atrophying of conversational muscles, Twitter changing from stars to hearts, Countdown to Zero Day: Stuxnet and the Launch of the World’s First Digital Weapon, The Journalist and the Murderer, and other potentially depressing ephemera.

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9:19-26:43: Yes, ephemera!  Not like good old live-forever-and-can-never-die comic books!  Graeme has been thinking about the latter and he’s got stuff to blow our mind with.  He’s been looking at sales figures and he’s got some very interesting insights to share with us, including how Star Wars comics are essentially the fourth largest comics publisher in the direct market, how much money DC is seeing from issues of Prez (with help from the info assembled by Alex De Campi, Printing costs and other behind-the-scenes info from Jim Zub).  Discussed:  DC You and profit, Snakes on a Plane, the Batgirl of Burnside, The Dark Knight Returns and the prestige format books, how to craft a book that is both safe and has the potential to go wide, and more.
Vision
26:43-55:46: In the course of talking about books from the Big Two that take some risks, Jeff brings up the first issue of Vision by Tom King, Gabriel Hernandez Walta, and Jordie Bellaire.  Graeme has thoughts about it too, some of them relating to the recent first issue roundtable we did with Matt Terl on the website, Impressively enough, we manage to keep the end of the issue unspoiled but otherwise consider it pretty much ALL SPOILERS, ALL THE TIME. but Discussed: tradewaiting, slow burns, second issues sales, a mission statement framed via a semantic argument, Mr. Spock in American Beauty, an almost comical reluctance by Jeff to bring up Alan Moore, the “return” to Marvel’s 70s diversity, our own struggles with comic book cynicism, and more.
Marvel
55:46-1:03:52:  Graeme wants to talk about Ms. Marvel #19 by G. Willow Wilson and Adrian Alphona, which was so satisfying for Graeme that he kind of feels…done with it?  With everything happening at Marvel, there’s probably never been a better time to talk about Jumping Off Points (well, okay, except for maybe the New 52), and so that’s something we kick around the old sonic playing field. (I probably shouldn’t tell you this, but you may get a lot more out of the first two minutes of the conversation if you’re aware that Jeff is confused and thinks Graeme is talking about Captain Marvel but is trying to hide it.)  Discussed:  Alan Moore leaving Swamp Thing, the post-Morrison years of Animal Man, and more.
Loki1:03:52-1:09:21:  A mention of Al Ewing reminds Graeme that in approximately two months all of Mr. Ewing’s work on Loki will be available on Marvel Unlimited, and this is a seventeen issue run that Graeme very much recommends.  Discussed: whether or not one should read Gillen’s Journey Into Mystery (and Young Avengers) before reading Ewing’s run, Mighty Avengers as a victim of Marvel Eventitis, and more.
1:09:21-1:19:00: “Marvel Unlimited is such an amazing resource,” says Jeff, before going on to talk about how his mad month-long buying spree on Comixology has him reading purchased stuff instead of all that (amazing!) all-you-can-eat stuff.  Will Jeff disclose how much he spent? Can Graeme find a gentle way to tell his friend has a problem? Discussed: how much Graeme spent at the comic store; the first week of Jeff’s experiment of foregoing floppies (and his store discount) and buying digitally; the issues Jeff bought this week, which leads us to…
Unfollow
1:19:00-1:27:20:  “Hey, so what’d you think of Unfollow, then?” Graeme asks, which gives us both a chance to talk about how much we enjoyed Unfollow #1 by Rob Williams, Michael Dowling, and Quinton Winter.  Vertigo has had a pretty strong batch of first issue launches recently,  but this is so far the strongest.  Discussed:  Survivors Club and Stephen King’s It; The Sheriff of Babylon and Jacked; Dowling’s beautiful art; Mark Millar and Grant Morrison; and more.
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1:27:20-1:30:33: Jeff wants to talk about the first issue of Platinum End, by the Death Note/Bakuman team of Ohba and Obata and very much in the vein of the former than the latter.  At the time of recording, it hadn’t seemed like a lot of people knew that you can buy each chapter digitally for ninety-nine cents at the same time as its Japanese release. You can get it at Viz; you can get it at Comixology; you can get it on Amazon for the Kindle.  As Jeff puts it, “If you want to see what Mark Millar is going to be ripping off two years from now, check it out.”
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1:30:33-1:35:11:  Graeme wants to know if Jeff’s picked up Monstress by Marjorie Liu and Sana Takeda.   Is it, as Graeme calls it “the ultimate Image book?” We go on to discuss it, along with Sarah Horrocks’ piece on Bitch Planet, Graeme utters the phrase, “I don’t even like fantasy, and this book is stunning to me.” (At the time of recording Jeff hadn’t, but he did not long after based on what Graeme says here and was pretty impressed… as you can see here.) The first issue is 71 pages for $4.99, it looks beautiful, and as Graeme says (and I go on to agree with in my piece), “Marjorie Liu is bring some really impressive fucking chops to it.”
1:35:11-1:39:51:  The other first issue?  The new James Bond book, Vargr, by Warren Ellis and James Masters.  SPOILERS:  It sounds pretty good…certainly better than Jeff’s take on what might happen.
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1:39:51-1:43:58:  We’ve both read Klaus #1 by Grant Morrison and Dan Mora. Considering it’s a comic book about Santa Claus, you would think Graeme would love it, right?  Did he? Didn’t he?  You’ll find out but you’ll hear a lot more about it from Jeff who refers to it as The Game of Thrones Christmas Special.  (Which it’s really not, but come on, that would be AMAZING.)
1:43:58-1:48:10: If you did read the first issue roundtable, you’ll know both Jeff and Greeme were pretty underwhelmed by the first issue of Paper Girls by Brian K Vaughan and Cliff Chiang. So along comes issue #2 and….we happily eat ourselves some crow.  Discussed: Whether Brian K. Vaughan is doing Lost even though he worked on Lost, or whether Brian K. Vaughan is doing Under the Dome even though he worked on Under the Dome; FULL SPOILERS for plot developments in the issue; Jeff compares the second issue of Survivors Club versus the second issue of Paper Girls, and an eensy bit more.
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1:48:10-2:11:16: Just to finish up talking about books we discussed on the roundtable…Jeff is a few issues behind on reading Batman and Robin Eternal, but Graeme is still reading it and, remarkably enough, is onboard!  Discussed: the delight of a monoplot; how long this weekly book lasts; how long it takes before the “everything changes!” trick wears thin; Batman comics written by Scott Snyder’s clique and Batman comics written by people outside Scott Snyder’s clique; Pete Tomasi and the Curse of Pete Tomasi [Note: not officially referred to out loud as the Curse of Pete Tomasi], the Justice League Darkseid War one-shots, and issues #40-45 of Justice League which we revisit because Jeff picked them up after Graeme talked about them last time.  (Seriously, we talk about them a lot.)
2:11:16-end: Closing comments! We try to figure out what’s coming up next…which is confusing in part because next episode is our Secret Convergence of Infinite Podcasts episode.  Graeme won’t be here (he’s on episodes 1, 3, and 5 of the crossovers) but Jeff will be joined by Chico Leo, Gary Lactus, and Paul O’Brien, discussing “The Worm Turns:  Characters, Comic Books, and Creators We Used to Love But Now Hate, and Vice-Versa.” Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 114 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible. Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr!  And, of course, where, as of this count, 114 patrons make this whole thing possible!
Okay, so check out the first comment if you need a link to cut and paste into the player of your choice, and, hey, maybe even drop us a note if you want?  That might be…nice?  Either way, as always, thank you for listening!
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Wait, What? Ep. 187: On The Importance of Unjustified Ridiculousness

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Early trick? Infrequent Treat?  Either way, Wait, What? Ep. 187 is at your doorstep, dressed up this year as “Sexy All Things Considered”!  This episode is two and a half hours of Graeme and Jeff sonically toilet-papering comics’ house, and you’re invited to hide in the bushes and snicker with us!

(For those of you reading this who don’t have Halloween in your location, I hope that paragraph was more charmingly surreal than vexingly impenetrable.)

Anyway, let’s get on with those show notes, shall we?  This year, they’re dressed up as  “Sexy Medical Consultation Notes”!

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00:00-13:47:  Greetings from Jeff “I Am The Devil!” Lester and Graeme “Yes, He Is The Devil” McMillan, who are off and running almost immediately thanks to some pressing comic book questions, like: was the Son of Satan actually, y’know, the son of Satan?  Discussed: J.M. DeMatteis, The Defenders, Buddha and Anti-Buddha, The Twentieth Century Satans, the David Bowie with the least amount of Bowie Flavor, the world’s meekest defense of Elvis Costello, Marvel’s recent BOGO sale, Iron Fist, Power Man, and Power Man & Iron Fist, and more.  “Patient’s autonomous reflexes are responsive…especially the sexy reflexes!”
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13:47-34:59: But still tho: Iron Fist.  Jeff has been re-reading from Iron Fist’s debut in Marvel Premiere #15 and so as you can imagine we discuss: Iron Fist, the Marvel premiere of Iron Fist (in Marvel Premiere), the career of Pat Broderick, the episode when Jeff suffers a stroke on-air, the penciling debut of Larry Hama and some of the visuals that get carried over to G.I. Joe, Tony Isabella as Gerhard Schnobble, Batroc The Leaper, the origin of Ghost Rider, Seeker 3000, Crystar’s comrade in arms Beau Bridges, Mag-NEET-oh vs. Mag-NET-Oh, the origin of The Champions, Jimmy Woo founding member of the Defenders, and etc. “Patient’s seems dazed and only partially responsive to questioning…unless the questions are sexy and provocative!”
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34:59-1:02:43: But of course a big deal about early Iron Fist stories is it’s where a certain Chris Claremont gets his first ongoing series (and with John Byrne, his first regular collaborator) and just like with Hama, it’s pretty damn interesting to see how much of Claremont’s interests, obsessions, and tropes are here in nascent form and how much of them are just…there, right from the get-go.  Discussed:  softball, creator cameos, mind control, the success of Spider-Man eyes, Bill Everett and Amazing Man, Batroc The Leaper as Pepé Le Pew, Chris Claremont’s scripts, what made the X-Men sell and sell and sell, Claremont and his desire to create tiny little stories about people, how everyone in the cast powers up and the bionic arm reveal in Iron Fist #3, Neil Conan NPR Reporter and Moira McTaggert, Peter Corbeau, more about Jo Duffy on Power Man and Iron Fist, Kerry Gammill, Trevor Von Eeden, Bob MacLeod on New Mutants vs. Bill Sienkiewicz on New Mutants, and much more in that vein.  “Veins and pulse rate are shallow…except for the sexier veins. MROWR!”
 justleague1:02:43-1:17:16: “I want to spin us around entirely differently,” Graeme announces, “and say did you got to the store this week?” Jeff hasn’t, and technically neither has Graeme but thanks to the miracle of digital downloads and comp copies, he’s here to talk about one of his favorite books of the week, Justice League #45 by Geoff Johns, Francis Manipul and Brian Buccellato.  “You have this absolutely ridiculous plot and this astounding art, and I just finished it being like ‘why can’t Justice League *always* like this?  This is amazing!’” SPOILERS for this arc, The Darkseid War, and also SPOILERS for Brian Hitch’s opening arc on Justice League which Graeme is also enjoying.  Also discussed: Geoff Johns tropes, The Amazo Virus, old rumors from the time of Final Crisis, Jeff Lemire and Justice League Dark, Jeff Parker and Justice League United, “Even Cowgirls Get The Plants,” and more.  “Conjunctivae pink. Sclerae anicteric. Oropharynx clear…and hotter than a barbecue pit in July!”
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1:17:16-1:22:14: “You know what I’ve been enjoying more than anything?” Graeme asks, but thank goodness it’s a rhetorical question because Jeff doesn’t know. “Bad Machinery.”  Discussed: yup, you guessed it: Bad Machinery by John Allison, a comic that Graeme says is “perfectly tuned to my sense of humor and my sense of the ridiculous,” the template for Bad Machinery cases, and SPOILERS for the upcoming volume from Oni, The Case of the Lonely One (and what Jeff does not say but should have is that Graeme would probably like him some Daniel Pinkwater). ” No cyanosis, clubbing or edema…except for *erotic* edema!”
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1:22:14-1:28:03:  As becomes clear from the conversation that follows, Graeme has not read Jeff’s review of The Colonel of Two Worlds,( and Jeff is okay with that!) but he has read the comic itself, so the duo are able to discuss that very fun and strange freebie comic. Discussed: the importance of unjustified ridiculousness,  the new sincerity and the new irony.” This area was mildly indurated. There was absolutely no erythema or fluctuance and it was not tender at all. No drainage…except for the *love* drainage!”
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1:28:03-1:49:12: Although he did not get to the store, Jeff did read a lot of comics and he wanted to talk about Captain Marvel #35-46, more or less by Steve Englehart and Al Milgrom.  This period falls right after the stunning run by Jim Starlin and, being buds and partying pals of Starlin, Englehart and Milgrom have big shoes to fill but also a semi-sympatico sensibility (and with that I’ll just collect my Alliteration Award at the window and be on my way, thank you very much)…or do they?  Discussed:  The Lunatic Legion, dropping acid in the Negative Zone, The Trial of the Watcher, the Skrull version of the MacArthur Genius Grant, the secret origin of Captain Marvel, space mules, how the storyline should’ve ended, Field of Dreams, and more. ALSO ALSO: If you want to read a little bit more about how less than spotless this run is, Jeff uses the letters pages as an example here.  “1+ posterior tibialis bilaterally. Feet are warm and capillary refill a bit slow but still less than 2 seconds. Decreased hair…which suggests sexy waxing! (Or hair loss.)”
 1:49:12-2:00:51: Really, we should be just about done, right?  Well, no, not quite:  Jeff, knowing how much Graeme has had to write about Star Wars recently, asks Graeme about…Star Wars!  And yet, Graeme doesn’t quite take the bait and pivots instead to discuss…Back To The Future Day! Also discussed: the impeccable craft of the first Back To The Future movie; Jeff’s suspicions about Back To The Future and Forrest Gump, Graeme’s criticism of how Back To The Future 2 steals the thunder of Back To The Future 3; Graeme’s criticism of Jeff’s theory, especially in light of the villain of Back To The Future 2 being deliberately modeled on Donald Trump, FULL SPOILERS for Back To The Future 2, shooting sequels back to back and whether that can work with movies that aren’t books, and more.  “Heart is Regular rate and rhythm without murmur, rub or gallop except for intermittent pangs…OF SEXY LOVE.”
 2:00:51-2:27:48: “I like how we were actually ‘let’s talk about Star Wars’ and we totally didn’t,” sez Graeme, and so we finally do.  Discussed: The release schedule for Star Wars movies, Greg Rucka’s Journey To Star Wars—The Force Awakens miniseries (and Graeme’s review), whether the new movie would be more satisfying the less you know about it, J.J. Abrams *KEEPER OF MYSTERIES*, Star Trek Into Darkness and Graeme’s rewatch and Jeff’s refusal to believe anything Graeme says now, rewatching Man of Steel vs. rewatching Green Lantern, rewatching Avengers vs. rewatching Avengers Age of Ultron, the good moment from The Phantom Menace, why Jeff likes John Cassaday on Star Wars and why Graeme likes Stuart Immonen on Star Wars, and more.  “Possible abnormal chest xray. Will repeat today….over a romantic candlelight dinner in the nude!”
 2:27:48-close: Closing comments!   Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 112 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr!
NEXT WEEK: Another skip week since there were five Thursdays this month and the very last Thursday is right before Jeff’s birthday so…yes, no podcast next week and blame Jeff for that.
HOWEVER, did you read all of the roundtable between Graeme, Matt, and I about the first issues of Paper Girls, Survivors’ Club, Batman & Robin Eternal, and Doctor Strange?  It’s like a podcast for the eyes! It’s worth a read! We had a lot of fun doing it and will probably want to do more!

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ALSO, on Friday, Graeme and Jeff are special guest-stars on the only movie podcast in the universe, Travis Bickle on the Riviera!  We are on part two of the massive Spookstravaganza where Sean Witzke, Travis Stone, and an unstoppable super-team of cinematic smartypants look at the film of Ridley Scott versus the films of Tony Scott!  Go check out Part 1 so you can be prepared for the sonic chair match that is Graeme vs. Jeff vs. Sean vs. Tony Scott’s Domino!!!

ALSO ALSO, Secret Convergence on Infinite Podcasts starts this week so keep an eye out on the Secret Convergence tumblr so you can catch the first crossover at Fan Bros featuring our very own Graeme McMillan!

It looks like the auto-embedding of the player is back so look to our first comment if you need a link for cutting and pasting needs.  And as always, thank you for listening!

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Wait, What? Ep. 186: Patience Runs Out

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00:00-6:19: Greetings from Jeff “Cute Bree” Lester and Graeme “or could it be Bree Cute?” McMillan, who are here to tell you about the Patreon security breach in the most indirect way possible!  Also, if you listen closely (okay, not that closely—you pretty much just have to listen), you can hear Graeme read the names from the Wait, What? Hall of Thank Yous, wherein the names of our contributing patrons have been inscribed.  Thank you, patrons!

6:19-7:29: Are we having internet troubles, or is Jeff just an idiot?  Hmm, tough call, tough call (no pun intended). So we spend a minute or two trying to figure out if we’ll need to skype one another back or not.  (Spoilers: we do, though not quite yet.)
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7:29-17:05:  “Hey, Jeff!” sez Graeme. “Have you read new comics this week or, like me, have you just been reading old comics?” Jeff has run down the list of books that he’s read, most of which are new or newish, Thanks to the way Jeff presented it (as “that $30 issue of Scooby-Doo Team-Up”), Graeme wants a few more details about that book, about which you might already know (and Graeme did too).  SPOILERS for the super-special guest stars of this issue.  This in turn leads to a quick discussion of the launch of DC Superhero Girls, and the first webisode which doesn’t look especially easy to embed otherwise we’d be doing it here.  Also mentioned more or less in passing: APE was happening just a few days after we recorded (and has wrapped by the time I write this) and New York Comic-Con is right around the corner.  Jeff has a slightly muddled history of the Alternative Press Expo for you, we discuss why it’s so damn difficult to have a comic book convention in San Francisco, and then…
17:05-17:34: We decide to jump off the line and try again since one of us is cutting out a bit on the other (although we’re happy to say you can’t hear it in the recording at all) so that bring us to…
17:34-24:03: Greetings, part two!  We’re back almost as soon as we left to talk discuss, well, how gullible is Jeff really?  And this leads into a discussion of made-up technology and apps that clearly don’t exist in the real world but are just spoofs designed to satirize today’s culture, such as Qoopy, or Peeple or Snapchat or Ello.
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 24:03-48:02: “Graeme!” sez Jeff.  “You’d asked me about comics I’d read.  Do you want to tell me what  comics you’ve read, and should we talk about, like, the comics?” And you think that would lead us into talking about exactly that—in no small part because Jeff wants to—but because Jeff hadn’t heard about the story by Janelle Asselin that broke over at Graphic Policy about Scott Allie’s history of alleged assault at comic conventions, Graeme recaps the story. So we talk about this situation, some of the other stories that have recently come to light in the comics industry, and about the struggle to find nuance without using that as a way to freeze out, ignore, or invalidate those who step forward. Also discussed: owning up to stuff, having to own up to stuff, apologizing to Ridley Scott, and more.
48:02-55:04:  “Let’s see,” sez Graeme.  “You asked what comics I’d read, didn’t you?” Graeme talks briefly about Sandman Overture #6 by Neil Gaiman and J.H. Williams III; we bemoan the change-up of Skull The Slayer by Steve Englehart and the wrap-up by Bill Mantlo; and we mention more or less in passing the Steve Englehart issues of JLA.
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55:04-1:26:05:  All of which leads Graeme to read (thanks to his magical library system) Time Runs Out, Jonathan Hickman’s closing arc to Avengers and New Avengers, which Graeme spends a certain amount of time dissecting and trying to wrap his brain around.  Discussed:  crazy dialogue, Mark Millar worship, Hickman’s concept of characterization, and how it pertains to his versions of Captain America and Iron Man; the appeal of ambition and the long game; a loosey-goosey comparison of Fraction’s Fear Itself and Hickman’s Secret Wars, as well as the Marvel work of Fraction and Hickman; the presence of irony; why it might not be the best idea to tie your event into a story that happened thirty years ago; and more.
1:26:05-1:37:19: “So what’s really interesting is comparing all of that to Remender in Rage of Ultron,” sez Graeme, and then vents a bit more about Avengers: Rage of Ultron by Rick Remender,  Jerome Opena, Pepe Larraz, and Mark Morales.  We discuss the characterization of Hank Pym, comics and wrestling with a great point from Graeme about wrestling; Sense and Sensible Rebooting starring The Vision; the new Daredevil series being written by Charles Soule; and more.
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1:37:19-2:02:04:  All this talk of continuity in comics and how long readers should be expected to remember things or creators should be expected to keep consistent with previous characterizations leads to a more personal revelation from Jeff: after years and years of reading comics series in print, it’s probably become time for him to make the transition to digital, thanks to experiences he’s had reading The Fade Out, Nameless, and The Walking Dead in digital as opposed to print.  Why digital over floppies? Why digital over trades? Irresponsible reader? Irresponsible customer? Or just an old fart?  YOU DECIDE.
2:02:04-end: Closing comments! Or it would be if we didn’t revisit the Scott Allie situation as his first statement had been released since the time we talked about the situation ninety minutes earlier!  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff!  Matt! Tumblr!  And, of course, on Patreon where, as of this count, 109 patrons make this whole thing possible!  We will be back next week!

NextTime

Next week:  A new Baxter Building!  Read up on issues #82-87 and Annual #6 of the Fantastic Four and join us for a monthly dose of semi-historical comic analyses!

And, since the player is once again being overembeddy, check out the first comment in the thread if you need a direct link to the episode for your cutting and pasting purposes!

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Wait, What? Ep. 185: PDHexed

SVT Kiss

Super-Villains Unite, indeed…

Whew, what a quickly spinning world we live on.  As I write this, it was exactly a week ago that Edi and I touched down in Portland, Oregon for a whirlwind visit that, once again, had me missing Rose City Comic-Con by thisssss much. And now here I am typing up the notes for the second in-the-flesh Wait, What? podcast.  185 episodes, and only two of which were recorded with the participants in the same room?  Verily, this is the Mighty Wait, What? Age of Hikikomori, True Believer! (Sorry, I’ve been reading too many Roy Thomas introductions recently.)

Without further ado…let’s do, shall we?

00:00-08:41: Greetings from Graeme “On The Street Where You Live” McMillan and Jeff “The Call Is Coming From Inside the House” Lester who dare you to figure out the strange secret of this episode’s recording! [Hint: we recorded it live in the same space, which is why it sounds so different.] [Spoiler: that was really more of a spoiler than a hint.] [Addendum: And that was really more of a hint than a spoiler.] [Postscript: That was actually an addendum, though.]  Once again, we are recording live but this time there is no professional microphone to help us, just two men hunched around a single laptop, so we apologize for the slightly less great sound. But for now, settle in and relax as we try out introductions, Graeme tells a story from the recent Rose City Comic-Con, we try to determine how many people hate Graeme, and more.

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08:41-25:43: For example, here’s a story about the two of us shopping at Cloud Nine Comics in Portland, Oregon, where one of us was the very model of restraint, and the other one of us was Jeff.  Mentioned: Steve “The Stinker” Englehart; whether or not Englehart is still in Oakland, California; whether to eat the brain or the liver; sitting adjacent to Chris Claremont; Englehart’s Coyote and the last cover thereto; meeting pros at cons (wait…is that deliberate?), Graeme’s amazing and entirely accidental pantomime; the ideal price for back issues; Jeff’s visit to Cosmic Monkey Comics; comic t-shirts we have worn and are wearing including these amazing beauties; and more.
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25:43-48:02: Talking about Cosmic Monkey conjures memories for both Graeme and Jeff of Comic Relief in Berkeley, which leads us down the primrose path of memory about how intimidating it was for us to shop in Comic Relief in Berkeley and Comix Experience in San Francisco; being slagged off by comic store clerks; being slagged off by comic store customers; and then back to talking about all the comic book stores in Portland and San Francisco, and what it’s like to live in a city with only one comic book store; which one of us had a “quitting comics” phase and which one didn’t; how living close to a comic book store can help you transcend superhero comics; and more.
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Wait, Watch?

48:02-1:10:51: “Hey, why don’t you talk about your Steven Englehart comics?” Graeme asks, so of course we talk about the announcement of Ta-Nehisi Coates writing Black Panther for Marvel.  We also talk about the less-covered news of Frank Tieri writing The Black Knight (and Catwoman!); who’s more important to DC, what’s-her-name or what’s-his-name; the news from DC, including the cancellation of Doomed, the un-cancellation of Omega Men, and whether or not the Internet has as much faith in DC as DC has in the Internet.  Also discussed:  the first issue of Omega Men and whether or not it needed to be more clear; the first issue of Watchmen; the mastery of Dave Gibbons; and more.

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1:10:51-1:22:29: Comics we’ve read recently!  Sure, we can talk about those!  But first let’s talk about reading said comics on the Kindle, because Jeff bought Graeme a copy of the Skull the Slayer collection for the Kindle and Graeme had….problems.  Is the Kindle really a digital comic book platform at all?  And what did Graeme think of Skull The Slayer? Also discussed is the Kindle version of Super-Villains Unite, Marvel’s collection of the old issues of Super-Villain Team-Up.
SVT Doom

It sounds like a weird braggy innuendo, doesn’t it?

1:22:29-1:41:34: In fact, here’s Jeff discussing those very same issues of Super-Villain Team-Up! Learn what you’re (probably not) missing from Victor Loves Namor, the romance comic about two characters who can’t stand each other, as written and drawn by creators who can’t stand them, either.  Also discussed:  Jim Shooter as writer and artist; Steve Englehart and the guest-star to end all guest-stars; the secret connection between Dr. Doom and Batman; Reed Richards eating his own hair; the crossover that points to a coup; the coup that leads to a new President of Ecuador; and more.
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1:41:34-1:52:45: Graeme has read Klang!: A Writer’s Commentary by Priest about the making of Q2: The Return of Quantum and Woody from Valiant. Discussed: Bill Cosby and Mark Waid; transgender in the scripts but cis gendered in the art; dropped plotlines and characters; gossip and process; unreliable narrators; Power Man and Iron Fist, and more.
1:52:45-end: Graeme also quickly mentions the 2000 A.D. jumping-on issue (Prog 1950) that he read and reviewed here on the site, and then is kind enough to lead us into… Closing comments!  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff!  Matt! Tumblr!  And, of course, on Patreon where, as of this count, 109 patrons make this whole thing possible!
Since WordPress isn’t automatically converting all links into the audioplayer, we’re going to leave the first comment to you and allow anyone who needs to to cut and paste from directly below:
http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat185.mp3
We will be back next week!
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Wait, What? Ep. 184: 2 Asked 2 Answered

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First, big thanks to Ed Corcoran for providing the perfect title for this episode!

Second, here we are!  This episode is a little early due to: the holiday weekend, some weird scheduling, and the desire to get a jump on the coming week which promises to be a bit of a sledge hammer.  So let us begin, shall we?

00:00-12:51: Greetings from Graeme “Cheers” McMillan and Jeff “Dora the Explorer” Lester, who are here once again for you!  Not only do we mention those two TV shows in the first two minutes, we also talk about Spider-Gwen #1, as read recently on Marvel Unlimited (under threat of physical violence)!  Although we both enjoyed the first issue, we talk about Jeff’s impressions of the book based on later issues, whether the book’s appeal rests solely with the creative team or not, whether or not the term “What-If’ing” is a thing or not, and more.  And this is also a fine time for Jeff to gripe about the Spider-Verse hardcover he got for super-cheap during an Amazon pricing SNAFU.  Did Marvel take passive-aggressive revenge on the advance order pilferers? Or is it just that a lot of the stories at least semi-terrible? Discuss!
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12:51-45:06: Then, our whistles whetted, it’s time for us to Q our little A’s off, with part two of our Q&A ‘cast, answering questions submitted to us by our mighty squad of patrons!  First up is Chris Carfora, who asks:  “1. Discussion Point: Have we reached the end of the age of Superhero comics? Seems like superhero movies are going through a bit of a golden age but i can’t say the same for the comics. With the reboots coming every two years now it just feels like the creators are constantly going over old territory and rehashing old ideas. Is there just not anything left to say about Superheroes? With the rise of independent comics and the availability of self-published comics through comixology and the like, do you foresee a shift away from superhero comics? 2. What would be your dream creative collaboration on your dream comic? Just to clarify, it can be past creators or current, so if you want Grant Morrison and Jack Kirby on Challengers of the Unknown go for it. 3. What cancelled or lapsed title would you most like to see resurrected? 4. In what way has the rise of marvel unlimited, comixology and other digital platforms changed the industry? Is this change a good thing?”
(Whew!) Discussed: the Direct Market; Jim Lee’s 1:5000 variant for Dark Knight III; Marvel’s troll response with a Deadpool variant cover; creator participation; Starbrand and Nightmask; the illusion of change versus the illusion of the illusion of change; Irredeemable, Incorrigible, Incorruptible, Incontinent, and Insufferable; Graeme not understanding Jeff at all;  crazy lists of dream teams for his dream comics including the Steve Gerber comic in heaven; Jason Aaron and Jason Latour on the amazing Marvel character, Razorback; Al Ewing and Henry Flint on Fantastic Four; the sequel to last year’s Judge Dredd epic, Titan, again by Rob Williams and Henry Flint; Aimee Bender and Pascal Ferry on Machine Man; Graeme summarizes the short but lively run of DC’s The Chosen; the crazy price discrepancies between some digital trades on both Marvel and Comixology (such as the Skull The Slayer and Weirdworld trades which are $10 cheaper on the Kindle); and more.
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45:06-58:27:  Carlos Aguilar asks: “1. Let’s say Image was formed in the 80s instead of the 90s, what 7 artists would you like to have seen leave Marvel (and if you want, DC) to form Image about ten years earlier? 2. Tons of Star Wars news coming out, so, Let’s say you got to pick creative teams for 4 different Star Wars books. What would the four titles be, and who would you have working on them? 3. Who would you like to see run the new incarnation of Heavy Metal instead of Grant Morrison?” Discussed:  Miller, Byrne, Perez, Golden, Simonson, Chaykin, and Art Adams (or Dave Cockrum?; the WaP! newsletter and Creator Bill of Rights crowd; being burnt out on Star Wars on the eve of Force Friday; Marvel’s Darth Vader series by Kieron Gillen and Salvador Larroca; Fabio Moon and Gabriel Ba on Boba Fett; Jason Shiga on C-3PO and R2-D2; Richard Corben on Chewbacca; the return of Walt Simonson to Star Wars; Brandon Graham editing Heavy Metal; Douglas Wolk editing Heavy Metal; Warren Ellis editing Heavy Metal; and more.
 Demon1558:27-1:04:09:  Max Brown asks: “It’s been a little while since Jeff has posted or talked about Jason Shiga’s Demon- and since it was Jeff that got me and a bunch of others reading it, it would be great to hear his thoughts on how the book has gotten 10000000x more insane and awesome since then, and on the recent announcement that First Second will be publishing it in collections. Thanks!” Discussed:  Jason Shiga’s Demon.  [Please note: Jeff actually screws up his issue numbers by one.  The amazing chase sequence is in issue #15 and the existential malaise is in issue #14.]
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1:04:09-1:36:16: Kevin Moreau asks, “1. What other podcasts, comics-related or otherwise, do either/both of you listen to/recommend? (Aside from Rachel and Miles and Into It, although please feel free to plug those, as well.) 2. What are your go-to sites/publications for comics news, insight, etc., other than your own website and Graeme’s various employers? 3. What are Marvel’s biggest problems today, and what can be done to correct them 3a. Are Secret Wars/All-New-All-Different and the continuing push to make Inhumans happen signs of creative bankruptcy? 4. I know I’ve read (Wait What mascot/patron saint) Steve Englehart comics over the years, but what would you point to as his most important/must-read work, or where should someone start in order to gain a greater appreciation? 5. Would you ever consider a Wait What Facebook group as a place for fans of the show to gather together and talk comics and related interest?” Discussed:  House to Astonish; Silence!; Comic Books Are Burning in Hell; Travis Bickle on the Riviera; the Nerdist Writer’s Room; the Guardian’s political podcast; 538’s What’s The Point; a Slate podcast called Working; Serial; Bleeding Cool and its recent trend for crazily biased news stories; The Outhousers; the terrific comics analysis columns by Paul O’Brien and Marc-Olivier Frisch; the surprising read that is comicbook.com; the surprisingly apt metaphor to describe DC’s new relationship to the Direct Market; the Steve Englehart stories you should start with; and more.
 1:36:16-1:41:18:  Paul Lai asks, “Seems we’ve thrown up our hands after Golden, Silver, Bronze, and the unfortunately named Modern Ages. Should we take for granted that comics are so diverse, diffuse, and mainstream now that maybe marking eras like that will be impossible/irrelevant? Or what about calling it a “Spectrum Age” where all that can really be taken for granted is the diversity?” (Paul actually had a long article he’d written about this that wasn’t accessible when Jeff tried to read it beforehand but it’s up now and it’s a pretty great read that makes a pretty compelling argument.)  Discussed:  Our less compelling arguments.
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1:41:18-1:44:53:  John Kim asks, “There are a lot of resets to the status quo in comic (Spiderman, Batman) after said comics try something different. Are the reasons for the resets mainly fan backlash and low sales? Here I am trying to sneak in another question… Are there any good legacy characters in comics?”  Discussed:  Wally West, Wally West, and Wally West; Batman: Year Zero; and more.
1:44:53-1:57:46:  Lewis Smith asks, “Of all the aborted story-lines, new directions, and false starts you guys have read in superhero comics, what was the one you really wanted to see play out?”  Discussed:  Firestorm as a fire elemental; Steve Englehart’s Fantastic Four and West Coast Avengers runs; the Amazing Spider-Man and headcanon; does Marvel need a reboot; and more.
1:57:46-2:08:12:  Ed Corcoran asks, “In a couple of previous episodes, you’ve mentioned the effect the library market has on how trade paperback collections are made and marketed. Can you talk a little more about the economics of that? What kind of comics rely so heavily on libraries? What do libraries look for? Also, are there any plans to collect the Avengers read-through into one big mega-episode?” We’ve tied this in with Drew Meger who asks, “It feels like every episode we hear a mention of some comic or other borrowed from your local library. As a librarian who buys comics for his library, I need to know: What comic titles would you want to see in your Ideal Library? Should we focus on the critical Top 10 list darlings and easy entry points for new readers or should we go obscure and get the titles readers might have been interested in, But not 30 dollar hardbound trade interested?” Discussed: how little we actually know about the economics of graphic novels and the library market; Kate Beaton, Vertical, Fantagraphics, Drawn and Quarterly and Pantheon; a bad maritime metaphor from Jeff, and more.
Celestials2:08:12-2:15:48:  Paul Spence asks, “Would the Whatnauts offer their views on Kirby’s Marvel series The Eternals. I read The Eternals for the first time this year courtesy of marvel Unlimited and it provoked a mixed response from me. The mythology appeared to be Fourth World Lite mashed up with some of the ideas from Kirby’s 2001, and a serving from Erich Von Daniken’s Chariots of the Gods. The Fourth World of the New Gods becomes the Fourth Host of the Eternals and DC’s Orion becomes Ikaris in The Eternals. This does appear to be a case where Kirby was recycling ideas. My second Kirby related question pertains to the Joe Casey penned Captain Victory and the Galactic Rangers. You covered the early issues in the series on the podcast and expressed both hope, and some trepidation, that it could be a masterpiece, or it could become a train wreck. Now that the mini-series has finished what do you think of the entire run?”  Discussed:  The Eternals by Jack Kirby, and Joe Casey’s Captain Victory and the Galactic Rangers; and not much more.
2:15:48-2:22:55: Louie Whitford asks, “Why didn’t Eclipse or First Comics survive? Or: What’s your favorite Eclipse series?”  Discussed:  quick shout-outs for books like Badger, Aztec Ace by Doug Moench and Dan Day; Alec by Eddie Campbell; Sabre by Don McGregor and Billy Graham; Destroyer Duck by Jack Kirby and Steve Gerber; the end of First and Eclipse; and so on.
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2:22:55-2:33:01:  Michael Loughlin asks, “1) In your opinion, what recent comics (2000s & 2010s) will be regarded as classics in the future? 2) Of all the writers who never worked with him, which writer would have made a good scripter for Jack Kirby? Feel free to choose one of his contemporaries or a current writer.”   Discussed;  our weird handwringing about the term “classic,” Al Ewing’s Loki and Kieron Gillen’s Journey Into Mystery; Bryan Lee O’Malley’s Scott Pilgrim; and more.
2:33:01-end: Closing comments!  Due to some crazy real-life events, I’ve cut out our talk of upcoming episodes and gone straight to Graeme telling you where you can find us on the Internet.  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Tumblr!  And, of course, on Patreon where, as of this count, 109 patrons make this whole thing possible! Speaking of which, Jeff has an apology that, thanks to an incisive email from Steve H, we have been tardy in providing the “recommend a book for us to read” perk to long-time patrons. We are in the process of getting organized and it is coming….soon!
http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat184.mp3
Whew!  Okay, so we hope you enjoy this episode, keep an eye on this space for what’s coming next, and remember: keep reading those comic books—you never know when you’re going to spend two and a half hours talking about them!
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Wait, What? Ep. 183: Asked and Answered, Asked and Answered

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                                 Strong Female Characters, by the mighty Kate Beaton

It is almost the end of August.  IT IS ALMOST THE END OF AUGUST.  Sorry, but my brain is broken just a little bit by that fact.
But hey!  After the jump, why don’t you check out the show notes for Episode 183 of Wait, What? It’s a two-plus hour episode where Graeme McMillan and I answer questions posed to us by those wonderful people on Patreon who help keep us afloat.  (I’m not sure what that term means for Graeme, but for me “afloat” means, “oh god, Comixology has the entire run of Super-Villain Team-Up for $1.99 an issue, and some of those are by Englehart, hope I can hold out for the first of the month…”)
Join us, won’t you?

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