http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat206.mp3 0:00-4:22: Greetings from Lost Lake Loop—okay, it’s actually Portland and San Francisco but we swear LLL (a location that sounds like a love interest for Superman when I abbreviate it like that) is actually…
http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat203.mp3 0:00-2:28: Greetings from the Sleepy Duo, Graeme and Jeff! One of is justified in their tiredness, one of them is not, but they still can manage to work up enough steam to discuss… 2:28-16:15:…
0:00-48:32: Very quick greetings so we can move right to talking about the rumors of the June DC relaunch, the news of which literally broke the day after we last recorded. Graeme has written about it on the website but he is kind enough to bring us all up to speed about what’s going on, giving Jeff plenty of time to do nothing by speculate mindlessly. Also discussed: worries about DC’s leadership; the near-total failure of the DC You; theories about the Tumblr crowd and comics (SPOILERS: Jeff sounds like a nerdier Norman Schwartzkopf by repeatedly using the phrase “force of engagement” a lot]; is Rebirth pivoting toward Batman Vs. Superman, or is it pivoting toward Suicide Squad; the different reactions of creators leaving DC as opposed to leaving Marvel; and more.
48:32-1:01:58: A lot of retailers appear to be saying that All-New, All-Different Marvel is selling badly, with one book, Black Knight, already being announced as cancelled with four other books selling lower than it. Also discussed: seasons as opposed to series, and how long those seasons should be; where the bump in Image’s marketshare came from; and more.
1:01:58-1:13:30: And another bit of surprising news coming from DC: the revamp of some Hanna-Barbera properties by DC talent, such as Scooby Apocalypse co-written by Jim Lee and Keith Giffen; Future Quest by Jeff Parker and Evan “Doc” Shaner (woo!); Wacky Raceland featuring re-designs by Mark Sexton of Mad Max: Fury Road fame; and The Flinstones with redesigns by Amanda Conner and scripts by Mark Russell of Prez. Discussed: Keith Giffen doing Scooby Doo?; whether inspiration came from Marvel and Star Wars or Archie and Afterlife With Archie; and more.
This excellent comic yoinked from http://floccinaucinihilipilificationa.tumblr.com/image/101960092787
1:13:30-1:23:45: Jeff read 16 comics before the podcast, only four of which were superhero books…arguably, five if you factor in Scooby-Doo Team-Up which featured Aquaman (and us being us, we do argue about it, a little). And this somehow segues off Jeff’s point to talk about the third issue of Sheriff of Babylon and the fourth issue of The Vision, both written by Tom King (art by Mitch Gerads on the former and art by Gabriel Hernandez Walta); as well as wondering where the Harry Potter comics are, and why there might be more Sandman mythos comics overseen by Neil Gaiman; and more..
1:23:45-1:47:01: Speaking of Neil Gaiman, Graeme has looked at the Marvel books that are selling less than Black Knight, and one of those books is Neil Gaiman’s little-seen Miracleman material with Mark Buckingham. Why is this material selling around 15,000 copies? Does it have to do with the way Marvel packaged the material? With Gaiman’s fans and their responses to what looks like more straightforward superhero work? Discussed: 1602, which Kubert did the art for 1602, Richard Isanove and digital painting, and the standard of digital painting today, Steve Oliff’s colors of Marvel’s Akira reprints, and the miracle that is, was and will be Sherilyn Van Valkenburgh’s colors on Milligan and Fegredo’s Enigma, Milligan and McCarthy’s Sooner or Later, before moving back into Gaiman’s Miracleman material and more.
1:47:01-1:58:07: “Okay, so here’s a question,” sez Graeme to Jeff. “And talking to you as someone who (a) loves the classics, and (b) loves Alan Moore…is there really a next chapter after where Alan Moore left [Miracleman]?” And Jeff…well, Jeff has an answer for that. It’s an answer that involves a trip to Road-Not-Taken-ville, with a lengthy amount of time in Almost-Forgotten-Pitch-Town, but we hope it’ll be worth your time.
1:58:07-2:11:53: And that should be where we end things, since we are right on the cusp of two hours, but a quick opportunity for us to give quick picks of the week—Sheriff of Babylon and The Vision, High School Debut—leads to a long talk about Black Magick by Greg Rucka and Nicola Scott. Discussed: emphasis in comic books, televisionetic comic books, Rucka and his plotting; and more.
2:11:53-end: Closing comments with one more slight digression about our appearances in letter columns and comic books (inspired by Matt Terl’s awesome column from a few weeks ago)! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr!
Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 115 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK: Baxter Building Ep. 14! The Fantastic Four without Kirby begins to find a focus again! Read up on issues #111-118 and join us!
00:00-29:40: Greetings from Graeme “Happy Holidays!” McMillan and Jeff “Who to the What Now?” Lester who start off by talking about 2016 right around the bend and all that will bring but also the oddness of recording on December 17: “Star Wars Day (Unofficially).” Yes, by the time you read these words, you probably will have seen Star Wars: The Force Awakens movie and Graeme probably will have as well. We try our hands at fake spoilers, Graeme tells us when he will be seeing the film and, more importantly, what it was like to attend a press screening of Twilight with specially invited fans of the books. Discussed: the phrase “vocal fans,” the phrase “you’re not MY Grand Moff Tarkin,” Star Wars “line frenzy,” the career of Kenny Rogers, Graeme insisting that Jeff knows the plot of the The Force Awakens, and Jeff insisting he doesn’t, rumors from months ago about the third act reveals, the very strange rumor about Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice, the return of Jaxxon and the very first Marvel Star Wars comic arc after the adaptation of the original movie, learning to do Star Wars right, the career of Don F. Glut, Abhay’s interview with him, and more.
29:40-44:42: “Hey, Jeff!” sez Graeme. “Because this is the last episode we’re recording this year, I know I made a totally half-assed attempt at a ‘Best of/Favorites of 2015. Did you?” And Jeff did! HOWEVER, we also had promised to address certain other topics in this podcast before we got around to that. (We had? asks Graeme. We had, confirms Jeff.) Because Whatnaut Kris Peterson had requested it, we read The Horror of Loon Lake, an anthology of comics edited by Carl D. Smith. [EDIT: Ooo, really big oversight on our part as pointed out to us on Twitter: Smith wrote all the stories, which were drawn by different artists. A real mistake on our parts, but also maybe a good sign at how many different types of stories he undertook? You decide!] Discussed: Smell A Rat by Stan Chou; all-ages horror comics; House of Scary by Jeff Manley; Cartozia Tales; and more.
Batman and Robin Eternal #11 by Snyder, Tynion IV, Brisson, Blanco, Duce, Rauch
44:42-1:10:02: And as for our second “we promised we would do this last time (we think?”), we are discussing the first eleven issues of Batman and Robin Eternal, plotted by Scott Snyder and James Tynion IV, and executed by a fleet of talented writers and artists. We discussed it as part of our first issue roundtable on the website but here we dig in to discuss it length. FULL SPOILERS for the first eleven issues so, y’know, spoilers and all. Discussed: Genevieve Valentine, Alvaro Martinez Bueno, and Raul Fernandez; Valentine’s Catwoman; the first few issues of Robin War; more plot-heavy discussion of B&R Eternal; the possible character-breaking plot twist that might be coming; and more.
1:10:02-1:16:30: Graeme steers us back to our Best of 2015 lists, which we finally dig into. Our lists are kinda problematic, in that we didn’t necessarily try to read to keep up with everything, and also because so much of what we thought as the “best” reads of the year either existed before it was published this year or because we just finally got around to it. As we say in the podcast itself, the difference between ‘new’ and ‘new to you’ is almost meaningless these days.
That said: lists! Graeme’s pick for favorite book of the year is Noelle Stevenson’s Nimona (which was a webcomic before it was collected by First Second). Jeff’s only read a page or two but we still get a chance to talk about it for a bit.
1:16:30-1:18:22: Another pick by Graeme for his favorite thing he read this year is 2014’s This One Summer by Jillian Tamaki and Mariko Tamaki, also published by First Second. “It’s so beautifully illustrated, so beautifully observed,” sez Graeme.
Giant Days by Allison, Tremain, and Cogar
1:18:22-1:24:16: Also on the list? Giant Days by John Allison, Lissa Tremain, and Whitney Cogar about kids going off to college. It’s not as magically realist as Bad Machinery but it’s equally funny for Graeme, if not more so. In a similar vein, but more superhero-y is The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl by Ryan North and Erica Henderson (which made both of our lists for best of the year). And even more superhero-y, and also on both our lists are the two issues of Convergence: Shazam! by Jeff Parker and Evan “Doc” Shaner which is, as Graeme so perfectly describes it, “another joyous superhero book that embraces the superhero.”
1:24:16-1:28:28: Graeme goes from that to almost the opposite with Martian Manhunter by Rob Williams and Eber Ferreira. Graeme’s review is kinda spoilery, but makes the book sound intriguing as hell. Not on Graeme’s list but definitely considered and most definitely discussed is Action Comics by Greg Pak and Aaron Kuder.
The Omega Men by King and Bagenda
1:28:28-1:34:34: But on the list: The Omega Men by Tom King and Barnaby Bagenda, and which Graeme refers to as “I think I’ve come to terms with it being my favorite Tom King.”
1:34:34-1:36:25: Another book from Graeme for which he has some complicated feels: Zero by Ales Kot and collaborators. With The Surface and Material as both runners-up and also of a piece.
1:36:25-1:37:54:Transformers vs. G.I. Joe by Tom Scioli and John Barber: it’s on both our lists (despite Jeff being four to five months behind).
Nameless by Morrison and Burnham
1:37:54-1:49:06: “Okay, I’m going to speed through the rest so you can do yours,” announces Graeme, so here goes: this year’s 2000AD Judge Dredd material from Rob Williams and Henry Flint, particularly their sequel to Titan(which Graeme actually talks about for longer than his last two picks put together); The Wicked and Divine by Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie; Multiversity by Grant Morrison and collaborators (also on both our lists), as well as other Morrison works this year: Annihilator with Frazier Irving, and Nameless with Chris Burnham; Unfollow by Rob Williams and Mike Dowling (also on both of our lists); and finally Drawn & Quarterly: Twenty-five Years of Contemporary Cartooning, Comics, and Graphic Novels, edited by Tom Devlin. With special runner-up status for two monthly books that are too early in their run to call the “best” of 2015 (but which both Graeme and I dig a lot): Monstress by Marjorie Liu and Sana Takeda, and Unfollow by Rob Williams and Mike Dowling.
1:49:06-2:17:55: Jeff’s turn! And since he wrote them all down and is the guy doing the show notes, you can get them in one big pile with notes as to how he read them, albeit one he divided up in a few different categories: manga, stuff that was published this year, stuff that was not published this year, and honorable mentions. (Please note Graeme thought to limit his list to roughly ten titles. Jeff wasn’t that organized.)
Black Hood #1-5 by Duane Swyerzsinski and Michael Gaydos (print, published by Archie/Dark Circle)
Multiversity by Grant Morrison and various (print, DC); Nameless by Grant Morrison and Chris Burnham (print, Image Comics); Annihilator by Grant Morrison and Frazier Irving (print, Legendary Comics)
Batman ’66 #20 by Rob Williams and Ruben Procopio (print, DC Comics)
The Fade Out by Brubaker and Phillips (print and digital, Image Comics)
The Humans by Keenan Marshall Keller and Tom Neely (print, Image Comics)
Monstress #1 by Marjorie Liu and Sana Takeda (print, Image Comics)
KFC: The Colonel of Two Worlds by Shane Edwards and Tony Bedard, and artists Tom Derenick and Trevor Scott (digital, DC Comics)
“Merry the Girl with a Thousand Gimmicks” from Adventure Comics #416
Stuff Not Published This Year:
Adventure Comics #416 for the silver age Supergirl story and Merry The Girl With A Thousand Gimmicks, but basically that run of reprints through issue #420 or so. (digital, DC Comics via Comixology)
Captain Marvel #35-39, the Trial of the Watcher by Steve Englehart and Al Milgrom (print, Marvel Comics)
Hawkeye #1-6 by by Fabian Nicieza and Stefano Raffaele (digital, via Marvel Unlimited)
The Brave and The Bold #140 “Death Aboard the Hellship” by Bob Haney and Jim Aparo (print, DC Comics)
Daredevil #105-107 by Steve Gerber, Don Heck, Don Perlin and Sal Buscema (digital, Marvel Comics via Comixology in the Avengers vs. Thanos digital trade)
Night Nurse #1-4 (digitally, Marvel Comics via Comixology)
Revenger by Charles Forsman (print and digitally, Oily Comics via Comixology Submit)
(With the surprising conclusion that, although he dearly loves his Marvel Unlimited all-you-can-eat subscription, he probably read more comics digitally via Crunchyroll’s all-you-can-eat subscription and also via sales and subscriptions on Comixology…and both of these experiences are still being overshadowed by print. Huh!)
Fantastic Four, by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee
Oh yeah, and truth be told, Graeme and I both really enjoyed reading the first 102 issues of the Fantastic Four by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee for the Baxter Building podcast. Good ol’ Reed Richards has a way of grating on a guy’s nerves, but it was also an *amazing* ride!
2:17:55-end: Closing comments! Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 115 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr! And, of course, where, as of this count, 112 patrons make this whole thing possible!
Next week: Keep your ears open for perhaps a holiday stocking stuffer around you-know-when? And then after that, we will be taking the last week of the year off and we’ll see you in 2016!
Early trick? Infrequent Treat? Either way, Wait, What? Ep. 187 is at your doorstep, dressed up this year as “Sexy All Things Considered”! This episode is two and a half hours of Graeme and Jeff sonically toilet-papering comics’ house, and you’re invited to hide in the bushes and snicker with us!
(For those of you reading this who don’t have Halloween in your location, I hope that paragraph was more charmingly surreal than vexingly impenetrable.)
Anyway, let’s get on with those show notes, shall we? This year, they’re dressed up as “Sexy Medical Consultation Notes”!
00:00-13:47: Greetings from Jeff “I Am The Devil!” Lester and Graeme “Yes, He Is The Devil” McMillan, who are off and running almost immediately thanks to some pressing comic book questions, like: was the Son of Satan actually, y’know, the son of Satan? Discussed: J.M. DeMatteis, The Defenders, Buddha and Anti-Buddha, The Twentieth Century Satans, the David Bowie with the least amount of Bowie Flavor, the world’s meekest defense of Elvis Costello, Marvel’s recent BOGO sale, Iron Fist, Power Man, and Power Man & Iron Fist, and more. “Patient’s autonomous reflexes are responsive…especially the sexy reflexes!”
13:47-34:59: But still tho: Iron Fist. Jeff has been re-reading from Iron Fist’s debut in Marvel Premiere #15 and so as you can imagine we discuss: Iron Fist, the Marvel premiere of Iron Fist (in Marvel Premiere), the career of Pat Broderick, the episode when Jeff suffers a stroke on-air, the penciling debut of Larry Hama and some of the visuals that get carried over to G.I. Joe, Tony Isabella as Gerhard Schnobble, Batroc The Leaper, the origin of Ghost Rider, Seeker 3000, Crystar’s comrade in arms Beau Bridges, Mag-NEET-oh vs. Mag-NET-Oh, the origin of The Champions, Jimmy Woo founding member of the Defenders, and etc. “Patient’s seems dazed and only partially responsive to questioning…unless the questions are sexy and provocative!”
34:59-1:02:43: But of course a big deal about early Iron Fist stories is it’s where a certain Chris Claremont gets his first ongoing series (and with John Byrne, his first regular collaborator) and just like with Hama, it’s pretty damn interesting to see how much of Claremont’s interests, obsessions, and tropes are here in nascent form and how much of them are just…there, right from the get-go. Discussed: softball, creator cameos, mind control, the success of Spider-Man eyes, Bill Everett and Amazing Man, Batroc The Leaper as Pepé Le Pew, Chris Claremont’s scripts, what made the X-Men sell and sell and sell, Claremont and his desire to create tiny little stories about people, how everyone in the cast powers up and the bionic arm reveal in Iron Fist #3, Neil Conan NPR Reporter and Moira McTaggert, Peter Corbeau, more about Jo Duffy on Power Man and Iron Fist, Kerry Gammill, Trevor Von Eeden, Bob MacLeod on New Mutants vs. Bill Sienkiewicz on New Mutants, and much more in that vein. “Veins and pulse rate are shallow…except for the sexier veins. MROWR!”
1:02:43-1:17:16: “I want to spin us around entirely differently,” Graeme announces, “and say did you got to the store this week?” Jeff hasn’t, and technically neither has Graeme but thanks to the miracle of digital downloads and comp copies, he’s here to talk about one of his favorite books of the week, Justice League #45 by Geoff Johns, Francis Manipul and Brian Buccellato. “You have this absolutely ridiculous plot and this astounding art, and I just finished it being like ‘why can’t Justice League *always* like this? This is amazing!’” SPOILERS for this arc, The Darkseid War, and also SPOILERS for Brian Hitch’s opening arc on Justice League which Graeme is also enjoying. Also discussed: Geoff Johns tropes, The Amazo Virus, old rumors from the time of Final Crisis, Jeff Lemire and Justice League Dark, Jeff Parker and Justice League United, “Even Cowgirls Get The Plants,” and more. “Conjunctivae pink. Sclerae anicteric. Oropharynx clear…and hotter than a barbecue pit in July!”
1:17:16-1:22:14: “You know what I’ve been enjoying more than anything?” Graeme asks, but thank goodness it’s a rhetorical question because Jeff doesn’t know. “Bad Machinery.” Discussed: yup, you guessed it: Bad Machinery by John Allison, a comic that Graeme says is “perfectly tuned to my sense of humor and my sense of the ridiculous,” the template for Bad Machinery cases, and SPOILERS for the upcoming volume from Oni, The Case of the Lonely One(and what Jeff does not say but should have is that Graeme would probably like him some Daniel Pinkwater). ” No cyanosis, clubbing or edema…except for *erotic* edema!”
1:22:14-1:28:03: As becomes clear from the conversation that follows, Graeme has not read Jeff’s review of The Colonel of Two Worlds,( and Jeff is okay with that!) but he has read the comic itself, so the duo are able to discuss that very fun and strange freebie comic. Discussed: the importance of unjustified ridiculousness, the new sincerity and the new irony.” This area was mildly indurated. There was absolutely no erythema or fluctuance and it was not tender at all. No drainage…except for the *love* drainage!”
1:28:03-1:49:12: Although he did not get to the store, Jeff did read a lot of comics and he wanted to talk about Captain Marvel #35-46, more or less by Steve Englehart and Al Milgrom. This period falls right after the stunning run by Jim Starlin and, being buds and partying pals of Starlin, Englehart and Milgrom have big shoes to fill but also a semi-sympatico sensibility (and with that I’ll just collect my Alliteration Award at the window and be on my way, thank you very much)…or do they? Discussed: The Lunatic Legion, dropping acid in the Negative Zone, The Trial of the Watcher, the Skrull version of the MacArthur Genius Grant, the secret origin of Captain Marvel, space mules, how the storyline should’ve ended, Field of Dreams, and more. ALSO ALSO: If you want to read a little bit more about how less than spotless this run is, Jeff uses the letters pages as an example here. “1+ posterior tibialis bilaterally. Feet are warm and capillary refill a bit slow but still less than 2 seconds. Decreased hair…which suggests sexy waxing! (Or hair loss.)”
1:49:12-2:00:51: Really, we should be just about done, right? Well, no, not quite: Jeff, knowing how much Graeme has had to write about Star Wars recently, asks Graeme about…Star Wars! And yet, Graeme doesn’t quite take the bait and pivots instead to discuss…Back To The Future Day! Also discussed: the impeccable craft of the first Back To The Future movie; Jeff’s suspicions about Back To The Future and Forrest Gump, Graeme’s criticism of how Back To The Future 2 steals the thunder of Back To The Future 3; Graeme’s criticism of Jeff’s theory, especially in light of the villain of Back To The Future 2 being deliberately modeled on Donald Trump, FULL SPOILERS for Back To The Future 2, shooting sequels back to back and whether that can work with movies that aren’t books, and more. “Heart is Regular rate and rhythm without murmur, rub or gallop except for intermittent pangs…OF SEXY LOVE.”
2:00:51-2:27:48: “I like how we were actually ‘let’s talk about Star Wars’ and we totally didn’t,” sez Graeme, and so we finally do. Discussed: The release schedule for Star Wars movies, Greg Rucka’s Journey To Star Wars—The Force Awakens miniseries (and Graeme’s review), whether the new movie would be more satisfying the less you know about it, J.J. Abrams *KEEPER OF MYSTERIES*, Star Trek Into Darkness and Graeme’s rewatch and Jeff’s refusal to believe anything Graeme says now, rewatching Man of Steel vs. rewatching Green Lantern, rewatching Avengers vs. rewatching Avengers Age of Ultron, the good moment from The Phantom Menace, why Jeff likes John Cassaday on Star Wars and why Graeme likes Stuart Immonen on Star Wars, and more. “Possible abnormal chest xray. Will repeat today….over a romantic candlelight dinner in the nude!”
2:27:48-close: Closing comments! Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 112 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible. Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr!
NEXT WEEK: Another skip week since there were five Thursdays this month and the very last Thursday is right before Jeff’s birthday so…yes, no podcast next week and blame Jeff for that.
HOWEVER, did you read all of the roundtablebetweenGraeme, Matt, and I about the first issues of Paper Girls, Survivors’ Club, Batman & Robin Eternal, and Doctor Strange? It’s like a podcast for the eyes! It’s worth a read! We had a lot of fun doing it and will probably want to do more!
ALSO, on Friday, Graeme and Jeff are special guest-stars on the only movie podcast in the universe, Travis Bickle on the Riviera! We are on part two of the massive Spookstravaganza where Sean Witzke, Travis Stone, and an unstoppable super-team of cinematic smartypants look at the film of Ridley Scott versus the films of Tony Scott! Go check out Part 1 so you can be prepared for the sonic chair match that is Graeme vs. Jeff vs. Sean vs. Tony Scott’s Domino!!!
ALSO ALSO, Secret Convergence on Infinite Podcasts starts this week so keep an eye out on the Secret Convergence tumblr so you can catch the first crossover at Fan Bros featuring our very own Graeme McMillan!
It looks like the auto-embedding of the player is back so look to our first comment if you need a link for cutting and pasting needs. And as always, thank you for listening!
(Not many people know this, but the enmity between Moondragon and Thanos started after the failure of the Disco album (cover pictured here) Mind-Warring You, Mind-Warring Me.)
Oh, good grief. It looks like I will get this podcast posted today (well, technically tonight but I know you’re feeling me). That is a tribute to something, I have to say.
Annnnnyway, show notes are nasty, brutish and short (and, hey, can we get a rapper named Brutish so we can do Nasty, Brutish, and Too Short joke, please please please) but the podcast is a soothing and pleasing two hours. That’s practically the soul of wit for us, amirite? So groove on behind the jump and dig it: Continue reading →
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